chris_tribble Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share #21 Posted March 15, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said: I think I'm a chicken... Ah, the old trying to find a reason for crossing the road problem... 😎 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 15, 2021 Posted March 15, 2021 Hi chris_tribble, Take a look here Living with obsolete hardware. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkmoore Posted March 15, 2021 Share #22 Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said: I think I'm a chicken... I’m feeling better about myself already. Cluck cluck. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 16, 2021 Share #23 Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said: I think I'm a chicken... Chicken Leican? Pete. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2021 Share #24 Posted March 16, 2021 Had my minolta x-700 for 30 years and will keep my two m262 bodies for as long as they keep working. I do get tempted or dream of lenses at times but not camera bodies that i enjoy using for some reason,although leica have made that easier because they produce no equivalent to the m262 in the m10 type body. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 16, 2021 Share #25 Posted March 16, 2021 37 minutes ago, farnz said: Chicken Leican? Pete. Leican Chicken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 16, 2021 Share #26 Posted March 16, 2021 3 hours ago, dkmoore said: I’m feeling better about myself already. Cluck cluck. There may be hope for you. As for me, I'm a lost cause. Everybody knows I'm cluckin' nuts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 18, 2021 Share #27 Posted March 18, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 3/14/2021 at 11:48 AM, AlanJW said: Have lots of older lenses but could not resist the new APO 35 just as I could not resist the APO 50. I also could not resist the M10R. I feel no shame even if these are "wants" and not "needs." I am admittedly weak, but am immensely enjoying my failures of will. My failures also extend to other objects, like cars, but I have (only recently) successfully curbed urges for watches and pens and my computer is eight years old. Do I get credit for progress? My wife is a psychiatrist by the way, and has not had me committed . . . yet. If the family can afford it without eating pork & beans and all the current bills and future bills can be paid, you have a safe vice. Some spouses put up with alcohol, smoking, philandering around, overeating etc. Your spouse is lucky it is only a camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 18, 2021 Share #28 Posted March 18, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 2:34 PM, chris_tribble said: These will print perfectly at A3+ (which is the most I tend to do) - though my images have been used as 30 foot high theatre posters too. Of course the new M10r is lovely, and the 35 APO is great - and if I could afford one I might be tempted. But what I've got in my hands now is pretty damn good. I'll live with my obsolete kit for the moment 😉 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Chris, as an antidote to GAS and needing an M10R or an Apo whatever have you tried the 'Super Resolution' feature in the new ACR? It doubles image resolution. No really. Control+Shift+D or down the right hand side of the screen find the three little dots that open a new menu and go to 'Enhance'. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share #29 Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, 250swb said: Chris, as an antidote to GAS and needing an M10R or an Apo whatever have you tried the 'Super Resolution' feature in the new ACR? It doubles image resolution. No really. Control+Shift+D or down the right hand side of the screen find the three little dots that open a new menu and go to 'Enhance'. Ah. Not investigated. Is that also available in Lightroom? I rarely use ACR directly. re the M10R, it’s not the resolution that interests me, but the overall malleability of the files and the capacity to retain information in highlights. I default to 200 ISO on the M10 and expose carefully so it’s rarely an issue, but I do notice the difference between the output of the M10 and the SL2. Maybe the touch screen and the quieter shutter would be nice to have, but it’s IQ which matters most. the good news is that there’ll be an M11 down the road so I should be able to pick up a clean M10R for a more acceptable price as soon as the early adopters rush to get theirs 😎 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 18, 2021 Share #30 Posted March 18, 2021 37 minutes ago, chris_tribble said: Ah. Not investigated. Is that also available in Lightroom? I rarely use ACR directly. re the M10R, it’s not the resolution that interests me, but the overall malleability of the files and the capacity to retain information in highlights. I default to 200 ISO on the M10 and expose carefully so it’s rarely an issue, but I do notice the difference between the output of the M10 and the SL2. Maybe the touch screen and the quieter shutter would be nice to have, but it’s IQ which matters most. the good news is that there’ll be an M11 down the road so I should be able to pick up a clean M10R for a more acceptable price as soon as the early adopters rush to get theirs 😎 I don't use Lightroom but if you can get to it via ACR this is worth looking at. In no way does it look like simply increasing Clarity or Sharpness or just traditionally bloating the file size (which it does anyway, but with a purpose). But if you try it and then for comparison decrease the image size to match your original you'll see the resolution does appear to be much greater. Additionally if you have a high quality TIFF or JPEG you can open it in ACR and it will also do it's tricks. I've tried it with film scans and there is definitely something going on for the better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppkarppi Posted March 18, 2021 Share #31 Posted March 18, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 4:34 PM, chris_tribble said: I always knew that the M10 would auto-destruct the moment that a new M iteration came along, and completely accepted the general wisdom that that new and APO is better than old and asph. NOT! While I might been tempted on the one hand by more megapixels, greater latitude, freedom from blown highlights, or on the other by perfect bokeh, spectacular resolution and distortion free images, I'm tending to resist. My resistance has been confirmed by a quick reality check on some images taken over the years with the M10 and an early Summicron M 35 (with a plastic lens hood!). Judge for yourselves. These will print perfectly at A3+ (which is the most I tend to do) - though my images have been used as 30 foot high theatre posters too. Of course the new M10r is lovely, and the 35 APO is great - and if I could afford one I might be tempted. But what I've got in my hands now is pretty damn good. I'll live with my obsolete kit for the moment 😉 The examples below are from a mix of professional reportage and personal work - the 35 Asph is my most used lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Lovely photos and I think you're right! I have M10-R, but the lens I love most on it is the legendary 50+ years old Canon 50mm F0.95. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Johnston Posted March 19, 2021 Share #32 Posted March 19, 2021 On 3/18/2021 at 9:21 AM, 250swb said: Chris, as an antidote to GAS and needing an M10R or an Apo whatever have you tried the 'Super Resolution' feature in the new ACR? It doubles image resolution. No really. Control+Shift+D or down the right hand side of the screen find the three little dots that open a new menu and go to 'Enhance'. finally getting around to looking at the "Super Res" and found this info for anyone interested: https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/enhance.html 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcampbell2 Posted March 20, 2021 Share #33 Posted March 20, 2021 Here's an interesting video comparing Adobe's Super Res to other res enlargement services. Cheers, jc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 20, 2021 Share #34 Posted March 20, 2021 10 hours ago, jkcampbell2 said: Here's an interesting video comparing Adobe's Super Res to other res enlargement services. Cheers, jc Very interesting so thanks for posting. When I first came across Adobe's Super Res function I suspected that there might be some smoke and mirrors involved and perhaps AI interpolation underneath and it looks likely but others have used better algorithms and produced superior results. Worth watching if Super Res is of interest. Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviden Posted March 20, 2021 Share #35 Posted March 20, 2021 Love my "old" M10 paired with the 50mm lux ASPH. ☺️ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318866-living-with-obsolete-hardware/?do=findComment&comment=4164619'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 21, 2021 Share #36 Posted March 21, 2021 12 hours ago, farnz said: Very interesting so thanks for posting. When I first came across Adobe's Super Res function I suspected that there might be some smoke and mirrors involved and perhaps AI interpolation underneath and it looks likely but others have used better algorithms and produced superior results. Worth watching if Super Res is of interest. Pete. At any rate the name Super Res is quite misleading. From Adobe's own information: Quote The resolution of the enhanced image stays the same as the original image. It is just a sharpening algorithm on steroids. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscottyk Posted March 21, 2021 Share #37 Posted March 21, 2021 Regarding the new ACR Super Resolution, here's an informative blog post from one of Adobe's senior engineers that has been involved with MUCH of ACR and Lightroom development, Eric Chan. From the ACR team: Super Resolution 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 21, 2021 Share #38 Posted March 21, 2021 19 hours ago, jaapv said: At any rate the name Super Res is quite misleading. From Adobe's own information: It is just a sharpening algorithm on steroids. Except the image produced is much, much larger. But then rescale the image back to the original size after 'Super Resolution' and the improvements are easily noticeable against the original file. As regards there being better programmes the question is how much do you need when the 'free' version can't handle it. If resolution is the only parameter even the Adobe app takes the M10 into M10R territory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 21, 2021 Share #39 Posted March 21, 2021 I know that you know the difference between an uprezzed and sharpened file and a natively high resolution one as well as I do. I am sure that Adobe applied advanced AI technology and produced superior algorithms, but even they cannot add detail that is not there. Suggesting that one turns a 20 MP camera into a 50 MP one is marketing speak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 21, 2021 Share #40 Posted March 21, 2021 vor 14 Minuten schrieb jaapv: but even they cannot add detail that is not there Though they pretend to do this: to twist curls on a bald head. Going back to the initial question about "obsolete" hardware, there is no "new territory" of "multi MP" hardware. If something is not well resolved with 24MP it won't be better resolved with 40+MP. I use the M10 as well as the M10 Monochrom - the latter with "real" 40+ MP, while the efficiency of 24 MP for the M10 is diminished by the necessities of the Bayern pattern. When the M10 Monochrom was new I tried very hard to "test" how to see the "better resolution" of the 40+ sensor: nope, it does not exist, 40+ MP without Bayern pattern cannot twist curls on a bald head. What is blurred with the M10 stays blurred with the Monochrom. If the lens is bad and does not resolve properly in the corners the M10 Monochrom will not cheat you and give you better results. I have never found any detail on the results from the Monochrom which was not there on the results from the M10 (with the files in greyscale). Yes, you may have more headroom for enlargement, especially if you crop. The limits for enlargement of a file with less MP compared to one with more are not set by "resolution" but by artifacts. What does "Super Res" do: adding more artifacts. Supplanting the obvious ones by covered up artifacts. To go beyond the technical limits of your present hardware, you perhaps need better glass, but much more important: less shaking, better focussing and in many cases more depth of focus - the basic techniques of photography. Magical thinking of "AI" will not stretch the limits of mere physics. When "Super Res" becomes available for LR, i'll try again where to find the new territories. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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