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Visoflex question


farnz

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I recently purchased a Visoflex III online but when it was delivered it turned out to be a Visoflex II. It even came with a Visoflex III instruction manual but it has no lever on the body to attach it to a camera without rotating it but it has a lever to manually lower the mirror instead of a knob below the mirror raising arm so it is a Visoflex II.

 

The Visoflex came with a OTXBO (16460) 90-degree magnifier and if I remove the magnifier I can attach the Visoflex body to my M8 but then I cannot reattach the magnifier because the magnifier's body is too deep and fouls the top of the M8.

 

My questions are these:

  1. Has anybody used a Visoflex II with an OTXBO on their M8?
  2. Has anybody used a Visoflex III with an OTXBO on their M8?
  3. Is the Visoflex III body (16497) sightly taller than the Visoflex II body (OTDYM/16455)?
  4. Am I doing something incredibly stoopid that's stopping the Visoflex II and OTXBO working with my M8? :confused:

All responses appreciated,

Pete.

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  1. Has anybody used a Visoflex II with an OTXBO on their M8?
  2. Has anybody used a Visoflex III with an OTXBO on their M8?
  3. Is the Visoflex III body (16497) sightly taller than the Visoflex II body (OTDYM/16455)?
  4. Am I doing something incredibly stoopid that's stopping the Visoflex II and OTXBO working with my M8? :confused:

Hello Pete,

  1. Visoflex II with the 90 degree viewer (OTXBO - 16460) cannot be used on the M8. It is the finder that prevents the usage, as its design will not allow it to slide onto the Visoflex II due to the taller profile of Leica M5, M6TTL, M7 and M8 bodies. The Visoflex II can be used on the above bodies with the straight viewer (OTVXO - 16461) but, the coupling/tripping arm will not mate properly with the shutter release on the taller bodies.
  2. The Visoflex III came with a different 90 degree viewer (16499), which will clear the top of the taller bodies and the tripping arm is designed in such a way that it clears the top and mates with the shutter release correctly.
  3. The Visoflex II body is exactly the same height as the Visoflex III, it is the OTBXO finder that is the problem.
  4. No, you are not doing anything stupid....:)

All the best,

 

Jan

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Thanks for your response, Jan.

 

Through much head-scratching, dark mutterings and squinting at pictures I had just noticed that the prism finder for the Visoflex II is (as you point out) different from the one for the Visoflex III, which is what's caused the problem.

 

... back the Visoflex II goes! Grrr ....:(

 

I guess it'd be too much to hope that a 16499 prism finder could be used on the Visoflex III? (It looks like it's a different width to the OTXBO)

 

Pete.

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Pete,

 

Sorry to hear of your dilema. Hopefully the seller will take it back. But if he won't, you can use a 5x straight finder for the Viso II and it will then fit the M8. The code is OTVXO and there's one on eBay right now that I seems in great condition.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270156685129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017

 

Cheers,

Henry

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Thanks, Jaap, that's great to know!

 

Thanks, Henry, I was watching that one but until I find out if my vendor will sort out the mess I can't do much.

 

The Visoflex came with a 200/f4 and adaptor, which I'd like to hang onto so if he won't sort out the Visoflex I'll probably look for a 16499 and stick with the Visoflex II body.

 

I was surprised to find that the Visoflex II attaches to the M8 without having to remove the handgrip. I feel sure that I read somewhere that it didn't.

 

Pete,

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Pete, it doesn't with the right-angle finder on it. Hence the lever on the V3. Convenience. Hopefully the M9 will be a bit shorter again...

 

Btw, the Visoflex III was released with the M5, I believe. Until then, all cameras worked with the Visoflex II. I don't know which the M6 needs. The M6 TTL and M7 also need the Visoflex III, I think I have read somewhere.

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Pete,

 

I keep on reading that the Visoflex II will work with the taller M bodies (i.e. M5, M6TTL, M7 and M8) when you use it with the Viso III 90 degree finder - I don't think this is correct. The problem is the Viso II's tripping arm - check it on your combo. Unfortunately, I sold my Viso II and only have the III now so, can't check it for you. Personally, I much prefer the Visoflex II as it is smaller and its arm can be folded out of the way for storage. I would have kept it had it worked properly with the M7 or M8.

 

When you mount your Viso II on the M8, is the tripping arm above the shutter release and does it first trip the mirror and than fire the shutter? From my earlier tests with an M7, the tripping arm of Visoflex II will not clear the higher bodies - that is why the Viso III arm is shaped dfferently.

 

If the arm of your Viso II triggers the shutter correctly, I would try to buy the prism of the Viso III and mount it on the Viso II - that way you would have the convenience of the smaller Viso unit and could use it on the M8 as well.

 

As I mentioned above - make sure that the tripping arm of the Viso II clears the top of the body and trips the shutter . There should also be some degree of adjustment left on the shutter release screw, so that you can time the release of the mirror in relation to tripping the shutter. It can be done with the Viso III, I am not sure if enough clearance is left on the Viso II.

 

If this mirror/shutter tripping delay is adjusted properly, your M8 can work as an aperture priority SLR! If you leave enough time between the mirror raising and shutter tripping, the meter will be able to provide correct shutter speed!

 

Best,

 

Jan

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Afaik the VisoII should clear the M8, with the screw fully screwed in. The only possible hassle (on the III) might be that the tripping screw is the short version. It is either find the lengthening screw in that case or a minor diy solution. The main problem of the Viso II is that it lacks the quick return mirror.

A decent Visoflex III should set you back about 100 to 150 $; a single prism finder probably not much less. The Visoflex II - prices are all over the place, some shops will give them away free or for 10$, sometimes they go for fancy prices on e-bay. I would put them at 75-125$. They most interesting use of any Visosflex is for macro, where the straight finder is a handy accessory,but it does switch left and right.. The 200, although it has its advocates and is a nice lens, is, imo, too far behind the 135/4.0 to be of real interest. The 280 is more interesting, if only because of its focal length.

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Everybody speaks of the Viso III as having a quick-return mirror. I have a III, and the only diff between the two settings is that the mirror either rises gradually as you depress the arm, or it snaps up at end of the arm travel. In either setting, the return of the mirror is gradual, as you let the arm rise after exposure, i.e., there is no automatic mirror return. Is something amiss with my III?

 

Stan Yoder

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Everybody speaks of the Viso III as having a quick-return mirror. I have a III, and the only diff between the two settings is that the mirror either rises gradually as you depress the arm, or it snaps up at end of the arm travel. In either setting, the return of the mirror is gradual, as you let the arm rise after exposure, i.e., there is no automatic mirror return. Is something amiss with my III?

 

It's "quick return", not "instant return". On the Visoflex III the mirror drops as soon as you let go of the arm, but on the Visoflex II it stays up until you cock the mechanism with a little chrome lever that doesn't exist on the III.

 

The separate cocking lever means that the arm of the Viso II has a much shorter travel. In its resting position it's almost touching the shutter release (like the Viso III with the mirror locked up).

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I don't believe that the Visoflex II will work on the taller cameras. The Visoflex III prism is absolutely flat on the bottom, and wouldn't help clear the top of the camera. The issue would be the arm (can't it be flipped 180 degrees forwards on the Visoflex II?), as well as the level of the top of the housing. I have not tried it, but believe this to be accurate. If anyone has tried the Visoflex II with a prism on the M8 and gotten it to work, could they speak up now? I think it will only work with the vertical finder.

 

The 280/4.8 is a very good lens. I bought this lens after studying the MTFs and reading the blurb in the Leica Pocket Guide, and it delivers great pictures. I must say though that the Visoflex + 280 is not that fast to work with, and hard to do free-hand. If you set the mirror to the black dot, the mirror rises slowly, which due to metering is the best setting for the M8 on automatic metering, but even so, you must press the shutter slowly, making accurate framing hard, given the narrow field of view. It might work a lot better if you raise the mirror, meter manually, and then use the yellow dot, I haven't tried this. This requires stable lighting conditions though, so there will always be places where it doesn't work well.

 

For this last situation I will probably end up buying an SLR one day, either a Nikon D300 or D3, or an R10, depending on how patient I am.

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Yes Carsten - the III prism has a flat bottom. That is why it works on taller cameras; The II prism has a ca 4 mm step-up, so it sits deeper on the camera. the Visoflex housing is identical in height.VisoflexII with prism III worked on my camera, but there may be different arm styles around, I don't know. The flip-up arm has been dropped on the Visoflex III because the mounting system is different. You do not have to turn the Visoflex to mount it, so it can go on with the handgrip attached.All in all is is far more ergonomic It is indeed advisable to use manual metering on the Visoflex when working fast. The M8 metering can get confused.

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When you mount your Viso II on the M8, is the tripping arm above the shutter release and does it first trip the mirror and than fire the shutter?

Jan,

 

In a word, no. I've tried the Viso II with its screw at both extremes on my M8 and the shutter won't trip.

 

(To Jaap) The screw is 10mm long but it seems doubtful that a longer screw would make the difference because the trip arm is prevented from reaching the trip point by the M8's release button, which of course fires first. I'd need to change the shape of trip arm so that it reaches the trip point earlier. (A little gentle 'arm-twisting'? :rolleyes: )

 

OTOH I have a number of 'excellent' pictures of the back of my Viso II mirror. :D

 

(Also to Jaap) Thanks for the comments about the Viso lenses: I value experienced, personal opinion highly. You said that you feel that the 200/4.0 is "too far behind" the 135/4.0 but because I've never used either it's not clear to me what you mean. Would you be so kind as to expand on what you meant please because I need to decide whether to return the Viso II and 200/4.0 or keep the 200 and find a Viso III.

 

Incidentally the vendor has apologised and offered to take the lot back or provide a discount so it's looking up. :) Thanks for your concern, All!

 

Pete.

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The 135/4.0 is very close to the current high- microcontrast high resolving lenses, the 200 is clearly of an earlier generation, it is somewhat more coarse and flat, and does not resolve the finest detail.I prefer a cropped 135 image to a 200 one, having both lenses. the 280 has the same fingerprint as the 200, but seems to be a bit more contrasty and has of course the focal length advantage. I find the colour rendering of the 280 very pleasing, it seems to differentiate the fine nuances.Btw the Viso II I had had a ca 20 mm long screw. Maybe somebody adapted the arm on mine, or yours is an earlier type. Some had a two-part screw where the bottom part may get lost, early ones had a short screw.

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Thanks, Jaap, that's really helpful.

 

With respect, I can't see how a longer screw would help - in fact it would appear to make it worse for the M8 because the shutter would fire even 'earlier' and the mirror would have even less chance of tripping. I thank a Viso III's the answer for me as I'd wanted all along.

 

Pete.

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I agree with Jaap regarding the 200 f4: i used it on M4, but realized that with M8 you have a little disappointing impression... I didn't test 200 vs. 135 cropped but it's an idea to work on... 10 Mpixels are are a lot of bits, and 135 is so much more simple to use...

 

I think that Viso has to be used with 280 and over, and above all for macro: in macro use, with tripod, the vertical VF is fine to use, and the lateral reversion is not disturbing.

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The 280/4.8 is a very good lens. I bought this lens after studying the MTFs and reading the blurb in the Leica Pocket Guide, and it delivers great pictures. I must say though that the Visoflex + 280 is not that fast to work with, and hard to do free-hand. If you set the mirror to the black dot, the mirror rises slowly, which due to metering is the best setting for the M8 on automatic metering, but even so, you must press the shutter slowly, making accurate framing hard, given the narrow field of view. It might work a lot better if you raise the mirror, meter manually, and then use the yellow dot, I haven't tried this. This requires stable lighting conditions though, so there will always be places where it doesn't work well.

 

For this last situation I will probably end up buying an SLR one day, either a Nikon D300 or D3, or an R10, depending on how patient I am.

 

You shouldn't have sold the 5D..:rolleyes:

 

( But then, I had one myself and I did the same thing..:D )

 

I agree with the Visoflex/ long tele issues. If you shoot on tripod it's usable but slow; handheld is really a PITA. I sold my Telyt 280/4.8 and now I retain the Visoflex only for macro on tripod ( with the M bellows and a pair of enlarging lenses ).

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