M10M + Visoflex. Yes or no?

[nodrog]

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I have the M10, and I've had the M240, but I've never felt the need, with those cameras, for the Visoflex attachment. For those of you who use the Visoflex on the M10M, how does it help you in your everyday shooting? What I mean is, do you use it all the time? Once in a blue moon? Do you regret buying it? Used it in the first week of ownership then put it aside? I ask this because, with luck, I should be picking up my M10M next Monday, from Leica Ginza, in Tokyo, and I'm curious whether I should pick up the Visoflex at the same time. Also (and I know this is addressed elsewhere, but wanted to ask for myself), is the GPS really worth having? What does it bring to the party, for you? This will be my first Monochrom.

Peter

Edited March 11, 2021 by nodrog

[Guest Nowhereman]

Peter - Wish I hadn't bought it, as I don't use it and don't like it. If I want accurate framing for macros with the DR Summicron or with the Macro-Elmar-M 90mm f/4, I prefer using Live View on the LCD of my M10. Whenever I've tried the Visoflex 020, handheld, for focus peaking or for enlarging the view for focusing, the image bounces around so much that it is annoying. The only time I've found this Visoflex useful, but not essential, was for camera scanning when my M10 was mounted on a Leitz BEOON copy stand. I just checked the price on B&H, where this piece of junk is $635.

I bought the Visoflex when I picked up my M10 but if I were you, I wouldn't do that now — you can wait and see and get it later if  you feel that you need it.
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Frog Leaping photobook

 

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[Keith (M)]

Yes, I use it for a variety of reasons.  Essential for my 21mm SEM and a range of R lenses plus using it at times with my 50mm Noctilux f1.  Plus of course with the M10M by using the Visoflex (or rear screen) one is seeing the potential image in monochrome - better for maintaining the monochrome mindset!   

[John Miranda]

 I have both and when choosing to move thoughtfully with a landscape, I like using it to closely examine the composition, items on the border of the composition, depth of field. When trying to move more fluidly, then prefer without.

[SrMi]

I use it regularly. Sometimes I focus and frame with the viewfinder, sometimes with Visoflex.

Visoflex can tilt 90 degrees. That allows for a different shooting position.

With monochrome cameras, it is essential not to blow highlights. The blinkies in Visoflex (enabled with half-press) can help judge the proper exposure in Visoflex or rear LCD (I prefer using EVF instead of rear LCD).

[Gobert]

There is no good or wrong, but I bought an M for its specific  advantages. The optical viewfinder is one of them.

With other words: I am not using it. I once tried it in the Leica shop.
But I really do not like it. If you want an electronic viewfinder, you’d better buy a Sony, Fiju or similar.

[a.noctilux]

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When I purchased my M10 in early 2017, it was the first M that allowed (for me skipping M240) EVF using, so I ordered one Visoflex 020.

For months, I didn't use the Visoflex 020 but as old-timer M user the optical "old style Visoflex III" for long focus or macro lenses.

When I've used the Visoflex 020, I was hooked and don't use the Visoflex III anymore.

 

Classic use of Visoflex III

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one weird use of the two Visoflex III/020

 

😇

so long history short, as usual, it's individual thing and knowing how/when to use the gear

is the most important to have that picture-without-pain

🧷

I don't have M10M but if I had one I'd take the Visoflex 020

as helping device for framing/composing/b&w rendering with filter

but not to use as principal VF to replace the nice OVF of the M.

 

With my M246, I use the EVF to help (when in doubt) my appreciation of rendering of colored filters in gray hues.

 

 

[nodrog]

Thanks for all your replies. I think I will skip the Visoflex, for now. If I feel the need I'll get one later, but it doesn't seem like an essential purchase. 

[simonr]

Depends what you're shooting and with what lenses. Simple. If you're doing portraits, needing critical focusing, then it's a pretty good idea. It's more accurate and it takes any rangefinder errors at close distances out of the equation. I need it.

The negative? It all then becomes a bit clunky and a little slower when activating the shutter. 

Simon.

[Ken Abrahams]

I am glad that I bought the Visoflex, I don't use it all the time however its their in my kit as a very useful tool when needed. 

[Ken Abrahams]

Recently I was using the Visoflex 020 as a waist level finder on the M10M. Although it appeared to be a much less intrusive technique when approaching street photography subjects, I encountered issues with mis-focusing. Unlike the accurate Focus peaking system on the SL models the Visoflex 020 is more "hit and miss" I think. Even when taking time to focus (35 mm lens) and using reasonable apertures for depth,  I found that I was focussing forward quite a bit. I checked the rangefinder focus versus focus peaking later and they seem to be okay but  the rangefinder is more accurate. Perhaps I will practice this waist level stance further because of its bonus anonymity factor on the street. The 35 lens could also be an issue with several points in the field of focus appearing in evf as red peaking.      

[SrMi]

13 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Recently I was using the Visoflex 020 as a waist level finder on the M10M. Although it appeared to be a much less intrusive technique when approaching street photography subjects, I encountered issues with mis-focusing. Unlike the accurate Focus peaking system on the SL models the Visoflex 020 is more "hit and miss" I think. Even when taking time to focus (35 mm lens) and using reasonable apertures for depth,  I found that I was focussing forward quite a bit. I checked the rangefinder focus versus focus peaking later and they seem to be okay but  the rangefinder is more accurate. Perhaps I will practice this waist level stance further because of its bonus anonymity factor on the street. The 35 lens could also be an issue with several points in the field of focus appearing in evf as red peaking.      

One difference in manual focusing between SL and Visoflex is that on SL you focus wide open (less DOF, easier to locate focus). In contrast, with Visoflex, you focus with working aperture. With Visoflex, I almost always open wide, focus, and then close to the working aperture. I do not have problems focusing properly with Visoflex.

[Ken Abrahams]

Thanks for responding SrMi

Set up on a tripod using the Visoflex and M10M focussed on vertical object some three and a half metres away: I am still noticing discrepancy between focus peaking and my rangefinder  focussing with the 35 Summicron lens. Although it is a small discrepancy as noted in the rangefinder it will affect some images.  The amount of focus peaking does not change on the object when correcting the focus in rangefinder at F2. 

The only lens I have a small amount of focus shift is the 35 Summicron ASPH and it became visible when using a flash on the SL and using the focusing method (open up then stop down) you describe above. Since then I always focus the with the working aperture on the SL (with this lens). I will test the focussing further on the Visoflex and look for human error in the system.   

Cheers

[IkarusJohn]

I use my Visoflex a lot on my M10-D and TL2.

Focus peaking is rubbish with the Visflex and also on the SL (in my view - just not accurate enough).  Focus magnification is useful, and accurate framing, particularly for wides (21 Summilux) and for longer lenses.

[SrMi]

16 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Thanks for responding SrMi

Set up on a tripod using the Visoflex and M10M focussed on vertical object some three and a half metres away: I am still noticing discrepancy between focus peaking and my rangefinder  focussing with the 35 Summicron lens. Although it is a small discrepancy as noted in the rangefinder it will affect some images.  The amount of focus peaking does not change on the object when correcting the focus in rangefinder at F2. 

The only lens I have a small amount of focus shift is the 35 Summicron ASPH and it became visible when using a flash on the SL and using the focusing method (open up then stop down) you describe above. Since then I always focus the with the working aperture on the SL (with this lens). I will test the focussing further on the Visoflex and look for human error in the system.   

Cheers

I use peaking with auto-magnification. Also check the diopter correction, it is too easy to accidentally change it.

[Ken Abrahams]

Yes, I found the diopter setting was out a few clicks, problem solved. Simple fix and probably an older age human error and lack of insight to re check the setting from shoot to shoot. 

 

Many thanks

 

 

[Jeff S]

9 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

Yes, I found the diopter setting was out a few clicks, problem solved. Simple fix and probably an older age human error and lack of insight to re check the setting from shoot to shoot. 

 

Many thanks

 

 

I think you would have identified the issue much easier using magnification rather than focus peaking, which I find not only inaccurate, but unnecessarily distracting and cluttering the view. While I don’t use the Visoflex on an M (RF only), I set up my SL2 to auto magnification for tweaking or checking manual focus. A light touch on the shutter release returns full view.  There is no better way to accurately focus than directly off the sensor (and little chance of sensor alignment error), unlike with an RF, which can produce focus errors via mis-calibration of RF and/or lens.  
 

Jeff

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

I think you would have identified the issue much easier using magnification rather than focus peaking, which I find not only inaccurate, but unnecessarily distracting and cluttering the view. While I don’t use the Visoflex on an M (RF only), I set up my SL2 to auto magnification for tweaking or checking manual focus. A light touch on the shutter release returns full view.  There is no better way to accurately focus than directly off the sensor (and little chance of sensor alignment error), unlike with an RF, which can produce focus errors via mis-calibration of RF and/or lens.  
 

Jeff

On my M10M and M10-R, focus peaking marking is so weak that I do not see it at all unless magnifying. That means that it is not bothersome while framing, and very helpful when focusing with magnification. I wish other cameras would use focus peaking in magnified view only. I cannot stand focus peaking in regular view.

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

On my M10M and M10-R, focus peaking marking is so weak that I do not see it at all unless magnifying. That means that it is not bothersome while framing, and very helpful when focusing with magnification. I wish other cameras would use focus peaking in magnified view only. I cannot stand focus peaking in regular view.

I can’t stand it in any view. Turned off on my M10 Monochrom. Different strokes…

Jeff

Edited June 27, 2021 by Jeff S

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[SrMi]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

I can’t stand it in any view. Turned off on my M10 Monochrom. Different strokes…

Jeff

Agreed with different strokes.

FWIW, I think that Visoflex has the best functionality of all EVFs available:

a) make focus peaking visible only at magnified view

b) make highlight/shadows warning visible only with half-press of shutter button