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Wheres all the Fanfare over the 28 APO SC?


jplomley

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This is a typical unfriendly answer from a person that is not really involved. Typical for this forum. I use several fora, but nowhere is the “climate” as unfriendly as here. Amazing ....   Any explanation for this ?

Usually it is allowed to express one’s opinion freely, but here in this “great” forum, it is common that someone joins in and tries to pester you.

Well, thank you. And thank you all “great” people who join in so enthusiastically. 

If I imagine I should even be paying for all this ....  

 

By the way, there are rules for good behavior in fora. As far as I know belittling other people and trying to insult them are not part of it. Rather discussing about the topic. In the last answer I find not much of that.  The software had a bug (no edit button) and in the meantime it has been fixed (why not before making it public). Still the new layout is not nice. It needs a lot more space on the screen than the old one. So in my eyes it is not ergonomic. If you have another opinion, simply say so, instead of attacking in this unfair way ?

Anyway, I am off. No need anymore for this stupid sort of forum activity.

 

About paying for this forum. Did you not notice that there are many adds ? Guess why ?  This is the modern form of payment, so this forum is not free.  (Or just If you are not really understanding how the web works.)

Edited by caissa
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4 hours ago, caissa said:

This is a typical unfriendly answer from a person that is not really involved. Typical for this forum. I use several fora, but nowhere is the “climate” as unfriendly as here. Amazing ....   Any explanation for this ?

Usually it is allowed to express one’s opinion freely, but here in this “great” forum, it is common that someone joins in and tries to pester you.

Well, thank you. And thank you all “great” people who join in so enthusiastically. 

If I imagine I should even be paying for all this ....  

 

By the way, there are rules for good behavior in fora. As far as I know belittling other people and trying to insult them are not part of it. Rather discussing about the topic. In the last answer I find not much of that.  The software had a bug (no edit button) and in the meantime it has been fixed (why not before making it public). Still the new layout is not nice. It needs a lot more space on the screen than the old one. So in my eyes it is not ergonomic. If you have another opinion, simply say so, instead of attacking in this unfair way ?

Anyway, I am off. No need anymore for this stupid sort of forum activity.

 

About paying for this forum. Did you not notice that there are many adds ? Guess why ?  This is the modern form of payment, so this forum is not free.  (Or just If you are not really understanding how the web works.)

So, calling forum admin ‘amateurs’ is considered good forum etiquette?

Jeff

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On 3/10/2021 at 7:16 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

I will say, for my own use I bought a 24mm 3.5 Sigma. I am very impressed with it. It is very sharp across the frame even on the SL2, made of metal with very good build quality and attractive design, has no visible distortion of CA (likely corrected digitally), nice bokeh, focuses to 0.3m and costs 550 dollars. I can see going for Leica for the most important focal lengths, but some of the newer Sigma options are pretty impressive. I compared the Sigma to the 21mm Super Elmar M and the 25mm Biogon ZM, and the 550 dollar Sigma was the sharpest of all of them. The Super Elmar was slightly contrastier on center, but it was noticeably worse across the field. Right now on B and H, the plastic Super Elmar lens cap 65 dollars. So for the cost of 8 lens caps you can buy the Sigma lens, which is actually also 100g lighter, sharper, weather sealed, autofocus and comes with two lens caps and a hood. I am not sure what is going on with lens design these days, but all of the companies seem to be completely crushing it in comparison to their older lenses...it is increasingly hard to justify a five or ten year old Leica lens design over a brand new Sigma, Panasonic or Fuji. I know this thread is about the 28mm Summicron, but I just figure it is worth noting that some of the interest might be lost by the fact that there are so many spectacular lens options these days, and not all of them cost 5000 dollars.

I miss lens like this for my Canon RP! :)

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8 hours ago, caissa said:

This is a typical unfriendly answer from a person that is not really involved. Typical for this forum. I use several fora, but nowhere is the “climate” as unfriendly as here. Amazing ....   Any explanation for this ?

Usually it is allowed to express one’s opinion freely, but here in this “great” forum, it is common that someone joins in and tries to pester you.

Well, thank you. And thank you all “great” people who join in so enthusiastically. 

If I imagine I should even be paying for all this ....  

 

By the way, there are rules for good behavior in fora. As far as I know belittling other people and trying to insult them are not part of it. Rather discussing about the topic. In the last answer I find not much of that.  The software had a bug (no edit button) and in the meantime it has been fixed (why not before making it public). Still the new layout is not nice. It needs a lot more space on the screen than the old one. So in my eyes it is not ergonomic. If you have another opinion, simply say so, instead of attacking in this unfair way ?

Anyway, I am off. No need anymore for this stupid sort of forum activity.

 

About paying for this forum. Did you not notice that there are many adds ? Guess why ?  This is the modern form of payment, so this forum is not free.  (Or just If you are not really understanding how the web works.)

Let me get this straight:

1) So you post about forum software on the SL thread complaining about changes in the forum software UI which was completely unrelated to the thread and should have been posted elsewhere on a different thread and/or removed from this thread.

2) Someone actually took the time to point you to a solution to your issue that is unrelated to the thread and at the same time pointed out that the same UI element is used on many other platforms and OSes.

3) You complain that the person who took the time to answer your unrelated question was behaving poorly and not following forum etiquette.

Edited by beewee
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Not seeing any rave reviews on this lens or general excitement about its introduction. My feeling is too much momentum has been lost on the SL line due to an extremely lethargic roll out of optics. Recent price hikes will be the nail in the coffin for a product that has an enormous amount of competition. 

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Could be that there’s just more anticipation and potential excitement over the wider SL Summicrons to come. I’ve read more comments about the desire for 21/24 than for 28 to this point, I think.  But, yes, price hikes are difficult in this market segment.

Jeff

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3 hours ago, jplomley said:

Not seeing any rave reviews on this lens or general excitement about its introduction. My feeling is too much momentum has been lost on the SL line due to an extremely lethargic roll out of optics. Recent price hikes will be the nail in the coffin for a product that has an enormous amount of competition. 

I’m arguing the opposite actually. I’ve been wanting to switch from Canon to the SL system for years, but held off until the prime lens lineup was more fully baked. Now that it is, I’m all in. I was stoked about the SL2, but the coincidental release of the SL2-S couldn’t have come at a better time, since I truly wanted to stay in the 24mp sensor size.

Basically, I think the SL system is only going to get more popular now that Leica has a line that can fully replace another.

Sure, I’m still waiting for the 24 to fully complete the switch (using the Q for now for that), but the fact that 3 of the 4 focal lengths I was waiting for are available now was enough to tip the decision scale. 

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10 hours ago, jplomley said:

Not seeing any rave reviews on this lens or general excitement about its introduction. My feeling is too much momentum has been lost on the SL line due to an extremely lethargic roll out of optics. Recent price hikes will be the nail in the coffin for a product that has an enormous amount of competition. 

I think the Q2 plays into this. It’s smaller, lighter, larger aperture, and cheaper. Optically it won’t be as good but it’s still a Leica that ticks a lot of boxes for people. 

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28 is too close to 35 for me anyway, and the SL 35 is the one everybody seems to want (with good reason). They should have put out the 21 after the 35, then the 24, then the 28 imho.

I dunno as much as I love my Q2M, 28mm is a somewhat less inspiring focal length than 21, 35, 50 or 75mm to me. I wonder if others feel the same.

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20 minutes ago, trickness said:

28 is too close to 35 for me anyway, and the SL 35 is the one everybody seems to want (with good reason). They should have put out the 21 after the 35, then the 24, then the 28 imho.

I dunno as much as I love my Q2M, 28mm is a somewhat less inspiring focal length than 21, 35, 50 or 75mm to me. I wonder if others feel the same.

We are all different, I have always liked a 50 and a 28, 35 for me is neither.

having said that I do have the 35, although if the 28 was out a year ago then I would have that instead of the 35.  

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42 minutes ago, Sjz said:

We are all different, I have always liked a 50 and a 28, 35 for me is neither.

having said that I do have the 35, although if the 28 was out a year ago then I would have that instead of the 35.  

Obviously everybody has their own personal taste about lenses, but the 35 has been so venerated since it came out, I know some of the pixel peepers see the 28 as inferior. I still don’t think it makes any sense to put out a 28 after the 35. They should have a fast Ultra Wide out

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2 hours ago, trickness said:

28 is too close to 35 for me anyway, and the SL 35 is the one everybody seems to want (with good reason). They should have put out the 21 after the 35, then the 24, then the 28 imho.

I dunno as much as I love my Q2M, 28mm is a somewhat less inspiring focal length than 21, 35, 50 or 75mm to me. I wonder if others feel the same.

From what I understand, there are most often those favouring the 35mm or those favouring the 50mm focal length. It is pretty rare to have someone enjoying equally and passionately both 35mm and 50mm. And good for them if they can enjoy both!

Maybe those into the 50mm, would love naturally the 28mm and be happy with it; maybe those into the 35mm can love equally the 28mm but could feel the need for 21mm as well, in particular if they are drawn into landscape and architecture.

At the end of it, it depends also and primarily on the genre of photography being practiced. I don’t see myself shooting portrait with a 21mm, but I do with the 28mm, specially the Lux 1.4. Strangely enough, for portrait I can think and feel in 75mm, 50mm and 28mm but not 35mm (even though there are great portrait in 35mm). So I did welcome the new SL 28mm. 

Back to the OP, I enjoy the SL 28mm, but due to the lockdown in the UK, there is a limit to how many times I feel like taking pictures of my cat in a flat… It will have to wait a few more weeks before I can take it out.

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2 hours ago, trickness said:

Obviously everybody has their own personal taste about lenses, but the 35 has been so venerated since it came out, I know some of the pixel peepers see the 28 as inferior. I still don’t think it makes any sense to put out a 28 after the 35. They should have a fast Ultra Wide out

It will be interesting to see how quickly the new wider lens follow.

I was unaware the 28 is considered inferior, I wonder how much of that was Herr Karbenk saying the 35 was his favourite and so a myth was created.

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1 hour ago, Sjz said:

It will be interesting to see how quickly the new wider lens follow.

I was unaware the 28 is considered inferior, I wonder how much of that was Herr Karbenk saying the 35 was his favourite and so a myth was created.

Not that it would ever mean anything to me in a practical sense, but I think the MTF is supposed to be not as good as that for the 35 APO. 
 

One of my favorite photographers is Jeanloup Sieff, who certainly did tons of wonderful work with a 28 and also with a 21. At the end of the day it’s the photographer not the gear that makes a great photograph. But I am definitely looking forward to the 21mm. I have taken some very interesting portraits with that focal length.

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Just now, trickness said:

Not that it would ever mean anything to me in a practical sense, but I think the MTF is supposed to be not as good as that for the 35 APO. 
 

One of my favorite photographers is Jeanloup Sieff, who certainly did tons of wonderful work with a 28 and also with a 21. At the end of the day it’s the photographer not the gear that makes a great photograph. But I am definitely looking forward to the 21mm. I have taken some very interesting portraits with that focal length.

Agreed, that’s the one to accommodate the 35mm !

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I've been using the 28 SL and the Sigma 24, both of which focus incredibly close.  You can get 5:1 with the Leica and even closer with the Sigma.  We're starting to get out with more than half of the population now vaccinated, so there is some streetlife.  And there is an election coming up in a few days.  But I am doing mostly cats and flowers.  Up very close with a wide angle, they look different.

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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Here's one:

for more, see the SL2 image thread

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