LCL999 Posted March 6, 2021 Share #1 Posted March 6, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Something I consider to be a glaring omission from Leica's current M-lens line-up is a light, compact, 35mm lens. Or am I missing something? F2.8 would be quite adequate considering the high ISOs available on the M10. The target market would be those for whom minimum size and weight is a major actor, plus those seeking a lower cost entry into the world of Leica M. As it is, Voigtlander offer just such a lens, though the reviews are mixed. I assume such a lens would be called an Elmarit, as the code seems to be Elmar -f4.0 Elmarit f2.8 -chron f2.0 -lux f1.4 or faster. Any comments as to when such a beast might become available, or should I just go and buy the Voigtlander? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 Hi LCL999, Take a look here 35mm Elmarit - f2.8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Aryel Posted March 6, 2021 Share #2 Posted March 6, 2021 Hello, Have you considered the 35 summarit-m asph? I think it is still possible to pick one up new. I have no experience with it though. There is a summaron 35 rumour too... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 6, 2021 Share #3 Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) What's in a name? - Romeo & Juliet, by W. Shakespeare. The Elmarit trade name was introduced in 1959, for a 90mm f/2.8 lens. At that time Leitz was already making 35mm f/2.8 (and f/3.5) lenses called Summarons. Leitz did not bother to relabel those lenses with the new Elmarit name, and discontinued the last of them altogether 4 years later (1963). https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summaron_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:2.8 https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Summaron_f%3D_3.5_cm_1:3.5 There was then a 44-year hiatus when Leica made no 35mm f/2.8, under any name. From 2007 to 2020, Leica offered the 35mm f/2.5 or f/2.4 Summarits (along with 50, 75 and 90 Summarits). https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm_f/2.5_Summarit-M https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/50mm_f/2.4_Summarit-M The Summarit name came from a 40mm f/2.4 lens used on a fixed-lens film point & shoot Leica from the 1990s. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Minilux And was chosen for re-use precisely to distinguish these "budget" lenses from the premium Elmars, Elmarits, Summicrons, etc. (And because they were not exactly f/2.8) The Summarits were Leica's competitive answer to the growing line of low-priced Voigtlander lenses. Including the C/V 35mm f/2.5 P/C Color-Skopars. Leica discontinued the entire Summarit line (also including a 50, 75 and 90) last year (the wiki is out-of-date). One way or another, Leica decided it was not a useful product line. Either it cannibalized sales from the more expensive lenses - or it was simply less profitable in its own right. There is some speculation that Leica may re-introduce a "classic revival" of the ca. 1960 Summaron f/2.8 - it will be priced "collectibly." Until that happens, both the 60-year-old Summarons and the modern Summarit-Ms are, of course, available used. A great many "starving artist" photographers of the 60s-70s got their start with a used Leica M2 and used 35 f/2.8 or f/3.5 Summaron. Both the old Summarons and newer Summarits are considered to be very, or very very good. __________________ To appease the precisionists - the Summarit name was also used for a single lens in the 1950s - a 50mm f/1.5 which was replaced by the first 50mm Summilux f/1.4. The name was then revived in the 1990s, and again in the 2000s. Edited March 6, 2021 by adan 3 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCL999 Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share #4 Posted March 6, 2021 Adan What a great Summarit summary! Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 6, 2021 Share #5 Posted March 6, 2021 vor 23 Minuten schrieb LCL999: What a great Summarit summary! Thank you. Yes, it‘s a good summary for the Summaron as well. Just one little quibble: the 1:2.8/35mm Summaron was not discontiued in 1963. It is still listed in the catalogue from 1973 (with googles for the M3). The catalogue for 1968 still has the version without goggles. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted March 7, 2021 Share #6 Posted March 7, 2021 I would recommend a 35/2.5 Summarit without hesitation. If a Summicron asph hadn’t fallen onto my lap I would still have it for sure. *Photo taken with 35/2.5 Summarit on M-D 262 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318647-35mm-elmarit-f28/?do=findComment&comment=4155352'>More sharing options...
adan Posted March 7, 2021 Share #7 Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) In terms of light-weight 35mm Leica lenses, one reason the f/2.8 Summarons were phased out in the 60s or 70s was the arrival of f/2.0 Summicrons that were at least as light-weight and compact as the Summarons. Thei Summarons' only advantage after that was a lower price. The 35mm Summicrons v. 2 through 4 (1969-1999) ranged from 150 to 190 grams. Which is why many were shocked - SHOCKED - when the Summicron-M ASPH came out at 255g. V. 4 Summicron-M, 190g Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Even the pre-ASPH Summilux, 2 stops faster than a Summaron, was only 245g or so. Personally, I currently use a Voigtlander 35 f/1.4 Nokton II: 189g. A close approximation of the pre-ASPH Leica 35s in weight and performance (a little better here, a little weaker there). Edited March 7, 2021 by adan 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Even the pre-ASPH Summilux, 2 stops faster than a Summaron, was only 245g or so. Personally, I currently use a Voigtlander 35 f/1.4 Nokton II: 189g. A close approximation of the pre-ASPH Leica 35s in weight and performance (a little better here, a little weaker there). ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318647-35mm-elmarit-f28/?do=findComment&comment=4155360'>More sharing options...
lct Posted March 7, 2021 Share #8 Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) Summarits are not f/2.8 of course but the lens below is an Elmarit-R 35/2.8 and there is also the tiny Elmarit-C 40/2.8. I would vote for an Elmarit-M 35/2.8 pancake if it could compete in a smaller package than Summarons 35/2.8 with the king Biogon 35/2.8. Not easy though... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 7, 2021 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318647-35mm-elmarit-f28/?do=findComment&comment=4155411'>More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 7, 2021 Share #9 Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) vor 7 Stunden schrieb adan: In terms of light-weight 35mm Leica lenses, one reason the f/2.8 Summarons were phased out in the 60s or 70s was the arrival of f/2.0 Summicrons that were at least as light-weight and compact as the Summarons. Thei Summarons' only advantage after that was a lower price Well, the 1:2.8 Summaron's original Summicron companion which was introduced more or less at the same time as the Summaron in 1958 had exactly the same size: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! On the balance the Summicron weighs 143g while the Summaron appears as an heavyweight with 163g - even though the Summicron has two additional lens elements. I think the Summaron's disadvantage was the lower price. At this time customers started to think that if they bought a Leica it should be really expensive. Same for the 50mm Summicron superseding the Elmar as the "standard" lens. This preference for the more expensive is even stronger today and the main reason the Summarit series was ditched last year. Therefore we won't see any new 35mm "Elmarits" Edited March 7, 2021 by UliWer 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! On the balance the Summicron weighs 143g while the Summaron appears as an heavyweight with 163g - even though the Summicron has two additional lens elements. I think the Summaron's disadvantage was the lower price. At this time customers started to think that if they bought a Leica it should be really expensive. Same for the 50mm Summicron superseding the Elmar as the "standard" lens. This preference for the more expensive is even stronger today and the main reason the Summarit series was ditched last year. Therefore we won't see any new 35mm "Elmarits" ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318647-35mm-elmarit-f28/?do=findComment&comment=4155524'>More sharing options...
lct Posted March 7, 2021 Share #10 Posted March 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, UliWer said: Therefore we won't see any new 35mm "Elmarits" Never say never but an affordable pancake lens like the Elmarit-TL 18/2.8 seems to sell well with the digital CL. It is not an M lens and not an equiv. 35mm lens either but the idea of a pancake 35/2.8 M lens sounds appealing to me. YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 7, 2021 Share #11 Posted March 7, 2021 As long as they are serving pancakes, customers ask for the soufflé; when the soufflé is served they miss the pancakes: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318647-35mm-elmarit-f28/?do=findComment&comment=4155575'>More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2021 Share #12 Posted March 7, 2021 The Summarits are really good lenses and I am sorry that they were discontinued. I managed to find a 35mm 2.4 earlier this year and that completes with the 50mm 2.4 Summarit all that I need from that line of lenses. I really appreciate their compact size on a M body and their performance is truly excellent. Nice to see the the new Summicron 35 APO has copied the form of the Summarit 35's while adding a few more bucks to the price of admission. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 7, 2021 Share #13 Posted March 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, UliWer said: As long as they are serving pancakes, customers ask for the soufflé; when the soufflé is served they miss the pancakes: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Hehe yes but i would not call the Summarit 35/2.5 a pancake lens although it is indeed a small lens. My idea would be something like the Elmarit-C 40/2.8 with modern performances if you see what i mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 7, 2021 Share #14 Posted March 7, 2021 vor 7 Stunden schrieb lct: ...if you see what i mean. Yes, I could imagine something: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The original Biogon (postwar) for the old Contax was so small, that you had to use the filterring to set the aperture. Though it was only small in front of the camera, the rear part was huge. Small size and practicability don't always come at the same time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The original Biogon (postwar) for the old Contax was so small, that you had to use the filterring to set the aperture. Though it was only small in front of the camera, the rear part was huge. Small size and practicability don't always come at the same time. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318647-35mm-elmarit-f28/?do=findComment&comment=4155889'>More sharing options...
lct Posted March 7, 2021 Share #15 Posted March 7, 2021 Still larger than your(?)/my Elmar 35/3.5 though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 7, 2021 Share #16 Posted March 7, 2021 Yes, it's a little bit longer, and of course the diameter is much larger (40.5mm filters). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCL999 Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share #17 Posted March 8, 2021 Hi Adan You wrote "Even the pre-ASPH Summilux, 2 stops faster than a Summaron, was only 245g or so." To go right back, my 35mm Summilux bought in 1968 weighs just 188gm (205 with the hood). It's a bit soft wide open, much sharper at 2.8. From all the comments it seems I can't do much better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCL999 Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted March 27, 2021 Thanks to all for your comments. fyi I finally ended up buying a Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5 Color Skopar. It is 134gm and protrudes 24mm. (150 gm and 43 mm with hood) Optically more than adequate. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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