The Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH - First Impressions

Steven · March 14, 2021

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48 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Looking at Steven's example of APO clinicalness run amok, perhaps even causing him to run to the return counter in despair...

my reaction to the picture is that it is a quick snap, and made a basic error. her eyes and forehead are in shadow, while the mouth and chin are overly lit, perhaps overexposed. Take the cap off, go into open shade, and the eyes will carry the picture. Two strokes with the brush in PS and there are no blemishes in the skin, and the details in the hair will do the rest. Don't blame the lens, just use the material that it presents a little better.

I give you that the photo was not a good one at all, I know that. I posted it cause the focus was sharp and because I didn't not manage to get much good photos yet, due to the boring lockdown. However, had it been my 35 pre asph Lux, I would have gotten away with it. Probably with my pre fle too. And even my Cron V4 would have covered for the little moustache 😂

March 14, 2021

Hi Steven,

Take a look here The Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH - First Impressions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!

March 14, 2021

34 minutes ago, Steven said:

........ You cannot shoot videos with the SL 35 APO...........

Why not?

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

Steven · March 14, 2021

Just now, petermullett said:

Why not?

The continuous autofocus is terrible. The focus by wire (is that what’s it called?) for MF is even worst.

Therefore, IMO, the only things you can film with an SL lens is something still. Like a landscape, or a fruit, or of course...... 🐩 💩

Jon Warwick · March 14, 2021

2 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Looking at Steven's example of APO clinicalness run amok, perhaps even causing him to run to the return counter in despair...

my reaction to the picture is that it is a quick snap, and made a basic error. her eyes and forehead are in shadow, while the mouth and chin are overly lit, perhaps overexposed. Take the cap off, go into open shade, and the eyes will carry the picture. Two strokes with the brush in PS and there are no blemishes in the skin, and the details in the hair will do the rest. Don't blame the lens, just use the material that it presents a little better.

On a similar theme, I think nearly all the images in Richard Avedon’s “In the American West” were taken in the shade ....the tonal rendering is nonetheless magnificent, and the subject jumps straight out the print.

I also think harsh light is among the most challenging situations for digital (and E6), especially the highlights that do have a graceful shoulder like B&W or C41 film does ....so another reason why I like shade for portraits, especially for digital (and E6).

Edited March 14, 2021 by Jon Warwick

March 14, 2021

2 hours ago, Steven said:

The continuous autofocus is terrible. The focus by wire (is that what’s it called?) for MF is even worst.

Therefore, IMO, the only things you can film with an SL lens is something still. Like a landscape, or a fruit, or of course...... 🐩 💩

Autofocus on video cameras is still a PITA Steven. I shot a feature in Paris last year where the director wanted all the cameras, ( it was a multi camera shoot, all Canon C500 Mk III's ), to use Canon's AF lenses. Too long a story to go into here but it was a nightmare and with multi talent on set the lenses "hunted" all the time for the correct focus point ruining many takes, it would have been 100x better to have gone with regular MF cinema lenses and to pull focus manually. The best "AF" is a good focus puller, bar none.

scott kirkpatrick · March 14, 2021

3 hours ago, Steven said:

The continuous autofocus is terrible. The focus by wire (is that what’s it called?) for MF is even worst.

Therefore, IMO, the only things you can film with an SL lens is something still. Like a landscape, or a fruit, or of course...... 🐩 💩

Are you using the linear focus setting on the SL2-S? The default non-linear (rate-based) manual focus can't be calibrated.

Steven · March 14, 2021

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1 minute ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Are you using the linear focus setting on the SL2-S? The default non-linear (rate-based) manual focus can't be calibrated.

I tried the update. Equally bad for any serious video work, in my opinion. It’s alright for occasional use, but not reliable for tracking moving subject, even less if the camera is moving too, and even less with the lack of a tilt screen.
beyond software, I find the focus ring to be too stiff for the serious focus pulling.

Steven · March 14, 2021

1 hour ago, petermullett said:

Autofocus on video cameras is still a PITA Steven. I shot a feature in Paris last year where the director wanted all the cameras, ( it was a multi camera shoot, all Canon C500 Mk III's ), to use Canon's AF lenses. Too long a story to go into here but it was a nightmare and with multi talent on set the lenses "hunted" all the time for the correct focus point ruining many takes, it would have been 100x better to have gone with regular MF cinema lenses and to pull focus manually. The best "AF" is a good focus puller, bar none.

Of course, in a professional set. No doubt about that. We focus pull as well on set.
But here, I’m using the sl2s not to make movies but for family home videos, or travel stuff, as one man band. I’m not saying I can’t do it without AF, I’m just explaining why I chose the 35 APO M over the 35 APO SL. It’s closer to a cinema lens. It’s easier to focus for video ! I guess in essence I’m saying the same thing than you. MF is more reliable than AF!

Danner · March 15, 2021

7 hours ago, Steven said:

The continuous autofocus is terrible. The focus by wire (is that what’s it called?) for MF is even worst.

Therefore, IMO, the only things you can film with an SL lens is something still. Like a landscape, or a fruit, or of course...... 🐩 💩

This is a rather shocking statement! I believe you, but still shocking. I gather you re a professional videographer?

Steven · March 15, 2021

4 hours ago, Danner said:

This is a rather shocking statement! I believe you, but still shocking. I gather you re a professional videographer?

Not everyone will agree, and rightly so. But this is my honest feedback.

John Robinson · March 15, 2021

15 hours ago, Steven said:

The continuous autofocus is terrible. The focus by wire (is that what’s it called?) for MF is even worst.

Therefore, IMO, the only things you can film with an SL lens is something still. Like a landscape, or a fruit, or of course...... 🐩 💩

The last time I shot video professionally was in the 1980s when we had to lug around heavy "Betacams" (for those who don't remember or weren't there, not beta versions of cameras but cameras using Sony Betamax tapes, typically resolving "broadcast quality" of around 650 lines in PAL standard). Digital video was not much more than a smudge on the far horizon in those days.

Fast forward to the 21st Century and I was intrigued to see what the Leica SL could do in the way of video, with quality unimaginable back in the days when "real filmmakers" shot film -- preferably 35 or even 70mm. So I tested various M-series and R-series lenses, and a couple of Contax Zeiss as well. Allowing for the APS-C crop in most of the video modes, it is possible to put together a really good set of prime lenses covering "wide-shot", "mid-shot", "close-up" and "big close-up" in old film-maker terms (anyone remember the "standard Arriflex" with its lens turret to hold three primes or a couple of primes and a zoom?). The right selection of lenses also produces very even colour-balance. (As an aside, the R-series Vario-Elmars can cover multiple prime focal lengths but don't hold focus through the range hence can't perform as cinematographic zooms.)

Out of curiosity I also tried a Summicron-T 23mm ASPH to see if autofocus had anything to offer for basic videomaking. My conclusion? It doesn't. Exactly as Steven describes, the "hunting" in full auto mode ruins shots, the "manual auto-focus" (move a focus point and press a button to pull focus) is almost impossible to get right on anything except a static subject and trying to focus by wire produces a result like hunting. None of the effects are as good as focusing a prime lens, helped by focus-peaking.

The Summicron-T went back and I am confident my SL with a carefully-selected set of primes could easily produce cinema-quality material. I don't expect to be shooting a feature film any time soon but there is something quite cheering to know that I could, using my humble "stills camera".

Steven · March 15, 2021

2 minutes ago, John Robinson said:

The last time I shot video professionally was in the 1980s when we had to lug around heavy "Betacams" (for those who don't remember or weren't there, not beta versions of cameras but cameras using Sony Betamax tapes, typically resolving "broadcast quality" of around 650 lines in PAL standard). Digital video was not much more than a smudge on the far horizon in those days.

Fast forward to the 21st Century and I was intrigued to see what the Leica SL could do in the way of video, with quality unimaginable back in the days when "real filmmakers" shot film -- preferably 35 or even 70mm. So I tested various M-series and R-series lenses, and a couple of Contax Zeiss as well. Allowing for the APS-C crop in most of the video modes, it is possible to put together a really good set of prime lenses covering "wide-shot", "mid-shot", "close-up" and "big close-up" in old film-maker terms (anyone remember the "standard Arriflex" with its lens turret to hold three primes or a couple of primes and a zoom?). The right selection of lenses also produces very even colour-balance. (As an aside, the R-series Vario-Elmars can cover multiple prime focal lengths but don't hold focus through the range hence can't perform as cinematographic zooms.)

Out of curiosity I also tried a Summicron-T 23mm ASPH to see if autofocus had anything to offer for basic videomaking. My conclusion? It doesn't. Exactly as Steven describes, the "hunting" in full auto mode ruins shots, the "manual auto-focus" (move a focus point and press a button to pull focus) is almost impossible to get right on anything except a static subject and trying to focus by wire produces a result like hunting. None of the effects are as good as focusing a prime lens, helped by focus-peaking.

The Summicron-T went back and I am confident my SL with a carefully-selected set of primes could easily produce cinema-quality material. I don't expect to be shooting a feature film any time soon but there is something quite cheering to know that I could, using my humble "stills camera".

I can confirm that the situation remains the same for focusing on the SL2. The only serious way is with a mechanical lens. Such as an M lens, an M 0.8, an R Lense, etc....

I like using M lens cause they are small and excellent for stills too. A lot of filmmakers go the route of R lenses which are cheaper and excellent for video.

SiggiGun · March 15, 2021

Am 3.3.2021 um 16:44 schrieb Steven:

Hello,

I know there are already a couple 35 APO M threads, but they all initiated from rumours, and are a bit all over the place. I suggest we create a new thread here to consolidate now that the lens is real and for actual users to share their first impressions?

I have the lens in my hands now but I promised my dealer that I would not share any pictures of it or from it until tomorrow 3PM, when it will be officially announced. I will do so tomorrow when the embargo is lifted.

In the meantime, I can confirm a few facts to you:

- it exists

- it will be released tomorrow. Limited quantities at first, only 5 in France in March.

- I paid precisely 7450 euros for the lens

- it is black and compact

- it is the first lens, to my knowledge, to have a minimum focus distance of 30cm !

See you tomorrow.

Stev

Hi Stev, concerning the limited delivery to France in March, you're saying 5,...do you have have an update or confirmation about this situation?

Thanks in advance

Siggi

Steven · March 15, 2021

11 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

Hi Stev, concerning the limited delivery to France in March, you're saying 5,...do you have have an update or confirmation about this situation?

Thanks in advance

Siggi

Yes, the confirmation I got is that it won't be 5, it is only 2. They are both sold. There is a waiting list for the rest but I dont know more about it.

Steven · March 15, 2021

At some point on this thread, or another APO thread, someone briefly challenged the marriage of the the 35 APO, or any overly sharp modern lens, on a film. Made me want to try with a few Sunday morning snaps. I find this roll of Ilford XP2 to make a perfect spouse to my 35 APO. Didn't get any shot worth printing, but it demonstrate that the 3D pop effect is still present on film.

As always, click on the photo for "best" viewing experience...