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The Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH - First Impressions


Steven

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Steven:

French. 

For photos, I have different tastes as for moving images. I would think I'm not the only one and that it's quite a expected reality.

For stills, I actually like different looks. I like sharp, I like glow, I like DOF, I like F8 street photos, I like colour, I like BW, etc...

For films, I dont like BW, I dont like stopped down aperture, I like very narrow DOF, and I'd rather a glowy, imperfect lens than a very sharp lens. For example, I prefer my 35 pre asph or pre fle, or even my nokton, more than my 28 lux or 35APO. But while I still enjoy the moving image produced by the 28 Lux at 1.4, the 35 APO seems to go a little far in details. 

I think it all comes down to the fact that while I like digital and film photography, when it comes to movies, I'd rather stay as far as possible from a digital look. So I won't got for 8K in my new A1 with the 35 APO 😂

Makes sense, or am I just talking non sense? 

I have no experience with videos yet, but what you say makes absolutely sense to me. Your description ist very well understandable. I have the SL2-S myself and I want to get into video, but I`m still in the beginning. Up to now, I have only produced a short video, but I don`t even know, on which platform to see this video. Lightroom or Capture One don`t make sense ... what do you use?

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34 minutes ago, Wonzo said:

I have no experience with videos yet, but what you say makes absolutely sense to me. Your description ist very well understandable. I have the SL2-S myself and I want to get into video, but I`m still in the beginning. Up to now, I have only produced a short video, but I don`t even know, on which platform to see this video. Lightroom or Capture One don`t make sense ... what do you use?

Final Cut Pro X 

if you don’t have a Mac, which you should, I recommend da Vinci resolve. 
stay away from adobe première. 

Edited by Steven
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6 hours ago, Steven said:

French. 

For photos, I have different tastes as for moving images. I would think I'm not the only one and that it's quite a expected reality.

For stills, I actually like different looks. I like sharp, I like glow, I like DOF, I like F8 street photos, I like colour, I like BW, etc...

For films, I dont like BW, I dont like stopped down aperture, I like very narrow DOF, and I'd rather a glowy, imperfect lens than a very sharp lens. For example, I prefer my 35 pre asph or pre fle, or even my nokton, more than my 28 lux or 35APO. But while I still enjoy the moving image produced by the 28 Lux at 1.4, the 35 APO seems to go a little far in details. 

I think it all comes down to the fact that while I like digital and film photography, when it comes to movies, I'd rather stay as far as possible from a digital look. So I won't got for 8K in my new A1 with the 35 APO 😂

Makes sense, or am I just talking non sense? 

This Black and White film might change your mind Steven........ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2718492/

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4 hours ago, petermullett said:

This Black and White film might change your mind Steven........ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2718492/

Seen it the week it came out in the cinema, before the buzz. I quite liked it. 
Also, remember that the film I produced this year and went to Cannes, Toronto, Busan, San Sebastian, New York film festival, and got shortlisted in the last 15 at the Oscars was shot in 4:3, the entire film on a tripod. The one we did with the same director the year before went to Cannes as well and was.... in black and white ! I appreciate black white cinema. I just dont like to create it myself. I have a very particular tastes when it comes to be. And it has a nature to evolve, as I like experimenting. Maybe one day I'll make a film in BW. 

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I already have a high quality 35mm lens and its full stop faster than the APO summicrom but the APO is worth a look for anyone who does not already own a 35mm lens and has enough money to buy it.

Will be interesting to read more objective reviews as time moves on.

 

 

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Steve, thanks for all your detailed and thoughtful comments and shared experiences with the 35 APO.  As you may have seen in my other thread in this forum, I noticed that my copy at least produces grainy bokeh from point sources of light when the focal plane is well in front of them.  Could you please test if your lens behaves similarly?  If you have an LED or other tiny source of light, set focusing distance to something very short, f/2, and expose so the bokeh isn't blown out, do the resulting bokeh balls show internal roughness?  I assume it's from the overlap of four different aspherical surfaces that were each press-molded, but it would be really helpful if another 35 APO owner could compare notes.  

I don't get grainy bokeh if the source of light is large (like a standard light bulb or a car headlamp) but I consistently see it when small lights are in the background.

Thank you!

Edited by onasj
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17 minutes ago, onasj said:

Steve, thanks for all your detailed and thoughtful comments and shared experiences with the 35 APO.  As you may have seen in my other thread in this forum, I noticed that my copy at least produces grainy bokeh from point sources of light when the focal plane is well in front of them.  Could you please test if your lens behaves similarly?  If you have an LED or other tiny source of light, set focusing distance to something very short, f/2, and expose so the bokeh isn't blown out, do the resulting bokeh balls show internal roughness?  I assume it's from the overlap of four different aspherical surfaces that were each press-molded, but it would be really helpful if another 35 APO owner could compare notes.  

I don't get grainy bokeh if the source of light is large (like a standard light bulb or a car headlamp) but I consistently see it when small lights are in the background.

Thank you!

I am now travelling out of Paris until tonight. Let me watch PSG -Barca when I get home and (if we win) I will test this before going to bed. 

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On 3/9/2021 at 7:07 PM, Steven said:

The APO works perfectly fine on an M and the images are sharp and beautiful. It is a bit of frustration having to interupt yourself to turn on live view, but its still a great bonus that I'd rather have than not. 

That being said, for me, this is lens that is going to spend most time on my SL2S where I think it excels the most. First it terms of form factor, as it obviously feels much smaller and compact (and cute) on an SL2x than on an M, where it's not, by my standards, a small lens. With my smaller Summilux 35 pre asph or Nokton, for example, I prefer to use them on an M where it feels just perfect, while it feels a bit too small on an SL2x. 

In terms of image quality, I also think it excels with the sensor of the SL2-S. The look it gives is just unreal. It's slightly different in my opinion than the M. I'm not sure how to describe it, but the SL2S feels a little more digital, or a little less organic than an M, and the image results in something overly realistic, with an insane 3D pop effect. I like it a lot, even if its not the look I'm always after. Being an F2 lens, one might feel a bit short on light at night with the mediocre low light capabilities of the M10 series (I prefer to have an F1.4 lens), but on the SL2S, that will never be a problem. The image will look beautiful at F2 in any scenario. 

And then of course there is the MFD thing. The EVF makes it flawless, to the point that when using this lens with an EVF you almost get annoyed that there is click to remind you (and distract you) when entering close range territory. 

Disclaimer: you're talking to someone who really fell in love with the SL2-S (FYI I had returned my SL2 after two weeks, hating that camera) and so I am a little bit biased. But I think that 35 APO is actually a match made in heaven to pair with the SL2S, as long as you can live without AF. 

I still have to test it with video, where my first results aren't too positive. I think the image looks a little too "real", and I would rather, in video, have a little more "atmosphere". Not a defintive opinion yet. 

Excuse my bad English and spelling mistakes, I would prefer to write my native language ! 

Thank you tons @Steven

Big +1 for lens size. Same here, I try to limit my lenses up to 300g and much prefer smaller ones. So I see your point here why 35APO would go better with SL2. (that means, 35APO is quite big)

BTW, One random thought I had in this afternoon was (don't get me wrong, it just came to my mind out of blue, no negative things toward 35apo which I'm considering to buy too) is, what's the exact point of 30cm on SL2 then. I mean, to use M lens on SL, we need adopter. But there are helicoid-supported adopter (aka close focus SL-LM adopters). Then most of M lenses can go further down to 30cm-ish anyway.  

I'm still hesitating between M10(-p/-r) and SL (yup, not SL2/s, the old SL).  Believe or not I've used/tested most of Leica digital Ms so far (except M8), but can't find the best fit for me..bizarre...

Lastly, your English is just perfect for me. Very easy to read and understand your point. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Thejoon said:

Thank you tons @Steven

Big +1 for lens size. Same here, I try to limit my lenses up to 300g and much prefer smaller ones. So I see your point here why 35APO would go better with SL2. (that means, 35APO is quite big)

BTW, One random thought I had in this afternoon was (don't get me wrong, it just came to my mind out of blue, no negative things toward 35apo which I'm considering to buy too) is, what's the exact point of 30cm on SL2 then. I mean, to use M lens on SL, we need adopter. But there are helicoid-supported adopter (aka close focus SL-LM adopters). Then most of M lenses can go further down to 30cm-ish anyway.  

I'm still hesitating between M10(-p/-r) and SL (yup, not SL2/s, the old SL).  Believe or not I've used/tested most of Leica digital Ms so far (except M8), but can't find the best fit for me..bizarre...

Lastly, your English is just perfect for me. Very easy to read and understand your point. Thanks!

Thank you! 

I am not sure if i am competent enough for me to answer your question but i will try in two steps: 

1. I use the Leica made adapter to adapt my M lenses. I like the way it looks and works, it feels great but doesn’t have the hélicoïd feature.

2. I’m sure that a lens that is intended to work at 30cm and intended to be a masterpiece should perform better at close distance than a lens that was intended to do so. 

That being said, it’s cool that you can use all lenses at 30cm. 

The more i spend time with this lens and the less i feel like the MFD is the reason to buy it (it was originally the reason why i bought it on an impulse). Today i just see this as a bonus that adds an extra level of versatility to an already superb lens. The main reason to buy it for me is the look it produces. And the optical standard it offers, for those who care, but I’m not one of them. 

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I'm in the market for one, and MFD is simply a "neat bonus" for me. I hate using Live View in general, and flipping back and forth between them depending on focus distance sounds clunky to me. Will be waiting to see how the Voigtlander APO 35/2 compares and using optics/size/price as my main factors.

I do generally find it irritating when a lens like the VM 35/1.2 III has a sub-0.7 MFD because there is barely any haptic feedback to know if or when you have left the rangefinder's range, even if it reinforces good focusing habits like "start from infinity". I really like that Leica has worked on that on this one.

Edited by astrostl
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On 3/10/2021 at 12:48 PM, steve 1959 said:

I already have a high quality 35mm lens and its full stop faster than the APO summicrom but the APO is worth a look for anyone who does not already own a 35mm lens and has enough money to buy it.

Will be interesting to read more objective reviews as time moves on.

 

 

It's approx $12k in Australia, so will be interesting to see what's compelling beyond the badge.

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I love APO technology.  The 90mm Summicron F/2 APO  is the  favorite lens in my kit.  That being said the price for APO for the 50mm Summicron lens when it came out a few years ago gave me pause.  Soon  I read in Thorsten Von Overgaard's  excellent website that my 50mm Summilux is an APO (Leica does not publicize this).  This website says  "The Leica 50 mm Summilux-M ASPH f/1.4 from Leica is an aspherical lens, and according to lens designer Peter Karbe it's even an APO lens."  So the 50mm Summilux is a real bargain given that it is fast and even an APO lens.  

Coming back to 35mm APO lenses, my question is did any prior models of the 35mm Leica lenses (FLE, ASPH or pre-ASPH) have APO capability prior to this new model???

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Asph surfaces on lenses are real things, documented in the technical data sheet that comes with the lens.  FLE elements can also be pointed out, and the mount hardware that lets them move independently can be found (if you're willing to take the lens apart, or have a cutaway drawing that you trust).  But APO is all about where the little rays of light end up, and unfortunately that is hard to see, so the abbreviation has taken on a life of its own, living quite independently in the warm embrace of the marketeers as well as with the technical lens designers.  In principle it means that enough different glass compositions have been used in the design that three wavelengths of light have been made to focus at the same point, from the center to the edge of the image.  Leica, which has always been aggressive in its use of exotic glasses, has been designing to those standards before, as Peter Karbe emphasizes. 

But APO as a marketing term is no longer under his control, and currently just means "the finest."  I presume that there are some details in the fiiles of how many additional aberrations have now been zeroed out in the latest lenses with their larger number of elements to control them.   Some of the trickier tradeoffs,  like sharpening contrast at the focal plane and allowing it to decrease rapidly just out of focus give rise to the "f/2.0 is the new 1.4" visual effects, and a very characteristic bokeh which makes backgrounds look different than is seen in the classic pre-2000 film lenses.  But you have to use the lenses to see if you like them, not rely on a label like "APO."

 

 

 

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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16 hours ago, Steven said:

2. I’m sure that a lens that is intended to work at 30cm and intended to be a masterpiece should perform better at close distance than a lens that was intended to do so. 

 

Firstly thanks for all the posts and shots. It's really not helping my bank account.

Secondly i have used helicoids on M lenses for a few years and have always been surprised at how good they are much closer. DOF is usually pretty thin so it's more about how the bokeh is. The CV lenses on other mounts all focus closer anyway, just the Ms seem to have some kind of artificial MFD because of rangefinder mechanics. 

It is really good to see Leica finally doing this. I hope they will adjust all the lenses in the range although probably too slow for me.

The downside of a helicoid is obviously two focusing rings and you can't pull focus from far to MFD in one go (and yes i used a lot of M glass for cine work)

cheers
Paul

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15 hours ago, astrostl said:

I'm in the market for one, and MFD is simply a "neat bonus" for me. I hate using Live View in general, and flipping back and forth between them depending on focus distance sounds clunky to me. Will be waiting to see how the Voigtlander APO 35/2 compares and using optics/size/price as my main factors.

I really want to like the Lanthars. But from the samples of the 50 i have seen it's just missing something. All CV lenses really suffer from purple fringing. So even if the performance is APO that fringing is something else and something the Lecias control so much better. I look forward to seeing the 35...

Also i find it dead annoying that the E mount versions focus closer than the VM mounts.

cheers
Paul

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On 3/5/2021 at 12:12 AM, Steven said:

Yes you trouble me I'll admit that. And yes I realise the words I used led some to believe I commented of technical stuff, this is why I clarified FIVE TIMES! across two threads. Anyway, sending you much love Jeff. 

And here's a photo of the APO between the Pre FLE and the Cron V4, for size comparison. It's on the big side. 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Leica introduces the new 35 APO, I see this picture ...result?

I finally buy the Cron 35 V4 to complement my 35 FLE.😀

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3 hours ago, Fedro said:

but then you decided to celebrate :) well done

I tried doing the test with no success. I do not have led lights so I tried with regular lightbulbs and the flashlight of my iPhone and could never reproduce a grainy bokeh ball. Sorry.

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