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The Leica APO-Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH - First Impressions


Steven

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9 hours ago, Tom1234 said:

Date 2021-03-04: I found Leica 35mm APO ASPH at $8,195 online compared to 35mm Nikon/Canon/Sony in the $600 to $1,695 range from the same source B&H Photo in New York.  These are all similar in image quality and build quality.  Okay, Leica is a bit better but not anywhere near $8,195 - $1,695= $6,500 better.  Come on let's be real.  

The price is $8,195 /  $1,695 = 4.8 times more expensive. From the 1970's I can remember vaguely Nikon lenses selling for around $600 and Leica $1,800 or 3 times more expensive.  I think that when pricing at a 3 multiple in the hundreds of dollars you can get away with it.  But in the thousands of dollars, selling at high multiples over other competitive equipment is an overblown pricing scheme.  The total dollar cost makes Leica equipment unobtainable to the typical camera buyer spending between $2,000 and $4,000 USD for a camera and lens.  

Unable to sell the the typical camera market, Leica has to sell to a special ultra rich group of individuals that mostly do not perform photography regularly but only as a hobby.  These people do not have the time to learn photoshop or a video edit program.  This is a special small group of monied individuals looking for a vanity product.  When looking at the whole world market they do exist. 

So using my business background to help me understand, I must say that these prices are purely a branding and marketing exercise that will choke off selling to probably 98% of the general photography market.  On a world wide level they do have these super rich hobbyists to sell to, but selling to them at ultra high prices means they totally loose the mass of serious photographers who already pay a premium for a dedicated camera.  The not-serious photographer uses their cell phone.  So what happens when you have totally offended and lost the base market of photographers who use a dedicated camera and not their cell phone?  I know a commercial photographer who laughs at Leica's prices saying he could not make a living paying that much for camera equipment. 

When prices are this much higher than prices of similar quality lenses from Nikon, Cannon, and Sony then the company is pricing for the super rich, playing a branding status game, and in this APO ASPH case obviously testing the waters as to what they can get away with in the marketplace.  I have a Business Degree and understand this pricing strategy well.  It establishes the high priced product as an elitist brand for those with superfluous money.  

Maybe a person should not complain… this is just a simple business and economics thing, it is Leica's prerogative if they want to vastly overprice rather than value and competitive price as the Asians do.  My concern is that with equipment this expensive I am forced to buying just one body and one lens and no more…. while within the Asian pricing system I could buy much much more and therefore develop into a better photographer.  

Where will I steer my USD's (dollars)?  I am considering selling ALL of my Leica equipment due to what I see as an un-stable and un-sustainable product over-pricing scheme and pricey-&-poor service that will neuter the brand to the mass of the photographic community.  And I have not mentioned the problem of their service not fixing my lens and other's complaints about service and my M9 camera body problems. 

Certainly with lenses from all makers getting more and more perfect there is the law of diminishing returns as all equipment becomes more similar than it is different.  What I am told ON ALL FORUMS (including by Leica photographers) is that the differences visually are best handled in software not by buying special lenses… use a Log file (flat file) they say… you have to go through post production software anyway so why are you wasting time and money on ultra expensive lenses?  If asked, they would tell me I am an idiot to buy ultra high priced lenses.  Are they trolls or truth tellers… you decide. 

I feel like I am watching the reckless management of my favorite camera-&-company as they taunt me "just leave me… if you think you can…" so it feels like a divorce is coming… I would not take this out of any women…   

!0 years from now, let;s guess what the used prices for these lenses might be. My bet is that the Leica will hold its value much better.

Regards,

Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

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2 hours ago, Cobram said:

By steel rim you mean Lux 35 PRE ASPH?

Yes. V1. 

 

2 hours ago, Cobram said:

About 3D look, I agree 100%. It is there and nobody can neglect it. Something special, no doubts. As mentioned before, you infected me with SLSummicron35 GAS 😅

Some people do neglect it, but to me, the M 35 APO is very close in rendering to the SL35, especially when mounted on an SL2x, where it draws even nicer that on an M in my taste. 

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2 hours ago, RF’sDelight said:

No, it’s exactly the same outer thread.

PS: On my photo the gap between lens and hood looks big and uneven but its not. Probably an effect of the computational photography of the iPhone. The hood fits tight and exact like the original Lux hood.

I wonder if this would fit on my pre fle too, but I suppose not. 

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Has anybody seen uk stock or even pricing on this lens yet?

I was saving hard thinking about a monochrome but might have change my mind now. Not sure I am interested quite enough in B&W to justify the costs.

Thanks to everyone for a really interesting thread, especially Jono and Steve, which is lighting up my lockdown this week 🙂

Best, David

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4 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I would agree with you about the existing 35 ‘cron Asph, although doesn’t ‘clinical’ just mean good?

Hey Jono, are you saying that you also dislike, or are ‘bored’ with, the 35 Summicron ASPH?  Or just agreeing that’s it’s ‘clinical’?  I never did understand what that term conveys, given the myriad rendering possibilities in the hands of different users.

Just curious, too, on the mechanical operation of your pre-production (and now final release) APO... solid aperture clicks (unlike some other recent releases)? ... smooth focusing action?  I assume no focus shift as sometimes mentioned with the 35 ASPH, right?

Jeff

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6 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

@Steven given that both you and me share the hatred for the summicron 35mm asph for being clinical / boring, this lens seems to be even more overly sharp and contrasty...so I’m just wondering what are your thoughts? I’m not interested in this lens at all because it’s a modern rendering and the close focus wouldn’t work on any of my cameras anyway (film & CCD) but was just interested in your thoughts on APO VS ASPH VS PRE-ASPH 35mm :)

That’s my first impression too, especially in the pebble beach around the lake photo’s from Jono. These pebbles are sharp beyond credibility, although this is a more a matter of extreme microcontrast than sincere resolution I suspect. Perhaps this lens would do well on a film like Foma Retropan. I cannot combine this so much with statements like ‘an iron fist in a velvet glove’ and the shown examples of this of the dogs on a walk through the woods with the sun in the lens. Is this pure a matter of different apertures?

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7 hours ago, Al Brown said:

So who will be the hero of the hour to compare this lens to the new Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 35mm f/2 Aspherical VM...?

If someone sends me a loaner Leica 35 APO and a loaner CV 35/2 APO, I will do such a comparison :) 

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27 minutes ago, otto.f said:

That’s my first impression too, especially in the pebble beach around the lake photo’s from Jono. These pebbles are sharp beyond credibility, although this is a more a matter of extreme microcontrast than sincere resolution I suspect. Perhaps this lens would do well on a film like Foma Retropan. I cannot combine this so much with statements like ‘an iron fist in a velvet glove’ and the shown examples of this of the dogs on a walk through the woods with the sun in the lens. Is this pure a matter of different apertures?

To be clear and apologies for any confusion, but if you are referring to the links I posted to Jono's samples, the shot of the dogs was from the SL-35 review. The one below, from the 'cron-M.  

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32 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

To be clear and apologies for any confusion, but if you are referring to the links I posted to Jono's samples, the shot of the dogs was from the SL-35 review. The one below, from the 'cron-M.  

Thanks Tailwagger, but I doubt whether it matters much. In Jono’s review of the new M lens are a few walk in the woods too, which are quite comparable in light circumstances, postion towards the sun and greens. So, if this is called an APO and the greens come out softer than other colors, I’m just puzzled and reserved, independent from the price. 

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5 minutes ago, Steven said:

If I may attempt to give a definition (in relation to photography): clinical - that does the job, nothing less, nothing more - precisely but without any emotion involved. 

All gear does that; the rest comes from the user, if they have the ability. Depending on the gear to convey emotion is lazy art IMO.  Bokeh frenzy and such.

Jeff

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2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Hey Jono, are you saying that you also dislike, or are ‘bored’ with, the 35 Summicron ASPH?  Or just agreeing that’s it’s ‘clinical’?  I never did understand what that term conveys, given the myriad rendering possibilities in the hands of different users.

Just curious, too, on the mechanical operation of your pre-production (and now final release) APO... solid aperture clicks (unlike some other recent releases)? ... smooth focusing action?  I assume no focus shift as sometimes mentioned with the 35 ASPH, right?

Jeff

Hi Jeff

Only with the the fact that it's just very good - but doesn't have a great deal of character - I wouldn't dream of using the word 'clinical' about a lens, because as far as I can see it's meant as an insult, but is actually a compliment!

I think one of the things about APO lenses is no focus shift - I've not looked terribly hard but I certainly haven't seen any - The whole feeling of the lens is lovely - not sure whether the final release is different (can't remember things like that for 5 months!).

best

 

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1 hour ago, otto.f said:

although this is a more a matter of extreme microcontrast than sincere resolution I suspect.

You make a good point here. This is a photo I took of my reflection in the mirror at night. Very dark, ISO 1600, 1/30th on the SL2-S. Crop on my eye is roughly 400%. Look at these details ! and its not a 50 mp sensor! 

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4 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

All gear does that; the rest comes from the user, if they have the ability. Depending on the gear to convey emotion is lazy art IMO.  Bokeh frenzy and such.

Jeff

I dont want to disagree with you again, but I do strongly disagree. A lens that produces a glow vs a lens that produces a hyper realistic look (which in my opinion are two main "Leica looks" the old one vs the new one) add a layer of emotion before the photographer gets to speak on top of it. 

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