Leica cameras used by British forces in Second World War

[nf3996]

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During the Second World War, Amateur Photographer magazine regularly included advertisements from photographic dealers appealing to the public to hand in their Leica, Contax and Super Ikonta cameras (plus various cine cameras and projectors) which were wanted for ‘priority war work’ by the armed services or Government departments. The Royal Air Force (RAF) was particularly keen to get its hands on Leicas as this Wallace Heaton advert from June 1943 states:

The R.A.F. asks us to buy Leicas and Contax cameras on their behalf. Wallace Heaton Ltd. – City-Sale will pay maximum prices for them and all accessories. Every Leica and Contax now acquired will be offered to the R.A.F. This is guaranteed. Owners should bring or send by registered post. No quibbling as to price. Maximum offers and prompt cash – you will get an amount which will buy you more, after the war, than the camera you sell us now.

Does anyone know what the result of such appeals was? Were lots of Leicas handed over for war work? And if so, what did such work entail? The only mention of the RAF making use of Leica cameras that I’ve found is in Roy Conyers Nesbit’s book Eyes of the RAF: A History of Photo-Reconnaissance, which mentions that, with specially made extension tubes, they were used to photograph H2S radar screens in aircraft of the RAF’s Pathfinder Force.

To what uses would the RAF (and Royal Navy?) have put Leica cameras handed in for war work? I believe the army’s Film and Photographic Unit preferred medium format cameras, so there may not have been much use for Leicas there.

Alan

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[Shac]

jc - thanks but the link doesn't seem to work

Edited March 2, 2021 by Shac

[jc_braconi]

Sorry the connexion was dead, is only an advertisement

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[pgk]

I know that someone who ended up as a manager of an R G Lewis shop had operated as a photographer for the army in Italy. I do not know which cameras he use, but I do know that he told us that during the war camera shops had their stock commandeered by the military, but 'had some stuff which we managed to keep for good customrs' which, if my memory serves me right, included some Zeiss cameras. So clearly there was some retention of equipment that was wanted by the military, and not everyone was prepared to had over photographic equipment. It might be worth trawling the web for images of allied photographers which will no doubt yield some equipment details.

[250swb]

6 hours ago, nf3996 said:

To what uses would the RAF (and Royal Navy?) have put Leica cameras handed in for war work? I believe the army’s Film and Photographic Unit preferred medium format cameras, so there may not have been much use for Leicas there.

For aerial recon it would have been 'medium format' (more like large format nowadays) but Leica and Contax systems where 'standardised' for miniature format at the time hence the requirement for cameras where one body may be paired with many lenses. I'm sure any camera would have been used, but a datumn point would have been specified for the ideal. You only need to look at battlefield and behind the lines photos to see that they were done with portable cameras.

[Anbaric]

https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/17757

'Operational results on H2S have been quite good this month, and its potentialities in gardening have at long last been recognised. In this connection, various methods of gardening with H2S have been used effectively. [RAF Station] Dunholme had the first opportunity of using Leica cameras for photographing the P.P.I. at the gardening areas, and proved without doubt that the vegetables were planted in the correct furrows. Unfortunately the shortage of cameras still prevents us using them on operations to any great extent. Training is also restricted to one Base.'

No, this wasn't a squadron horticulture competition! 'Gardening' = laying mines in water from the air, H2S = an airborne ground scanning radar system,  PPI = 'Plan Position Indicator', the classic radar display with a radial sweep. Presumably the RAF crews were using their Leicas in 1944 to photograph the onboard radar screens and confirm the placement of the mines they had dropped.

[Anbaric]

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Interesting story here of MI6 using various Leicas (including 250 Reporters concealed in the wings of a civilian aircaft) for covert intelligence gathering on the eve of the War:

http://www.davidtearle.com/a-brief-history-of-aerial-photographic-inteeligence

[Pyrogallol]

9 hours ago, Anbaric said:

https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/17757

'Operational results on H2S have been quite good this month, and its potentialities in gardening have at long last been recognised. In this connection, various methods of gardening with H2S have been used effectively. [RAF Station] Dunholme had the first opportunity of using Leica cameras for photographing the P.P.I. at the gardening areas, and proved without doubt that the vegetables were planted in the correct furrows. Unfortunately the shortage of cameras still prevents us using them on operations to any great extent. Training is also restricted to one Base.'

No, this wasn't a squadron horticulture competition! 'Gardening' = laying mines in water from the air, H2S = an airborne ground scanning radar system,  PPI = 'Plan Position Indicator', the classic radar display with a radial sweep. Presumably the RAF crews were using their Leicas in 1944 to photograph the onboard radar screens and confirm the placement of the mines they had dropped.

My father was an RAF armourer during WW2 and described “veg” in his working diary.

The pencil note is mine after I looked up what it meant.

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[nf3996]

Thank you all for your input. I was looking through a copy of Ian Grant's book Cameramen at War last night and that confirmed the standard issue still camera to the Army Film and Photographic Unit was the Super Ikonta 531/2 until the Ensign Commando became available late in the war. One photographer in the AFPU made use of a Leica he had 'liberated' from a  German soldier, until he was captured and the camera  reclaimed by the Germans. And former press photographer Bert Hardy, when in the AFPU, used his own Rolleiflex until it broke and then had to rely on the Super Ikonta, which he did not like. The Royal Navy had a photographic branch, but it would seem that Leicas were mostly used by the RAF.

Alan

[pgk]

36 minutes ago, nf3996 said:

..... but it would seem that Leicas were mostly used by the RAF.

Small and light - might have been an important factor.

[jc_braconi]

28 minutes ago, pgk said:

Small and light - might have been an important factor.

And luminous lens...

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

My father was an RAF armourer during WW2 and described “veg” in his working diary.

The pencil note is mine after I looked up what it meant.

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What lovely handwriting!

[Pyrogallol]

19 minutes ago, pedaes said:

What lovely handwriting!

When children were taught to write well, with a dip pen. Using an ink pen helps you to write neater. I was taught to write in school in the 1950’s when they still had desks with an inkwell and dip pens, taught a traditional “joined-up” writing script, but not as neat as the previous generation, but better than you see today. Though I have noticed that my writing is not as neat since I retired and write less than I did in earlier days at work when you wrote a report by hand and then sent it to the typists’ section to be typed up. Blame the fall in writing standards on the change to typing everything into a computer.

[PG Black nickel]

Hi,
It was another time, I also knew this time of feathers and inkwells where we learned to "build" each letter...
But back to our cameras...
During the war Kodak had specially modified the Kodak 35 (PH324) for the US Army, did the British army also benefit from it ?
The quality was by no means comparable to a Leica... we still see towards the end of the war, some pictures of American soldiers with Leica, Rollei ...(Recovered from German prisoners?).

Philippe

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[willeica]

2 hours ago, PG Black nickel said:

Hi,
It was another time, I also knew this time of feathers and inkwells where we learned to "build" each letter...
But back to our cameras...
During the war Kodak had specially modified the Kodak 35 (PH324) for the US Army, did the British army also benefit from it ?
The quality was by no means comparable to a Leica... we still see towards the end of the war, some pictures of American soldiers with Leica, Rollei ...(Recovered from German prisoners?).

Philippe

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Kodak ended up on both sides of the divide in the 1930s. The story is an interesting one and involved Kodak factories in Germany being seized for arms production and then after the war its assets were further distributed in an East-West divide. 

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/09/the-confiscated-kodak-factory-that-made-film-for-the-nazis-and-communist-east-germany/

if it were not for WWII Kodak could have ended up as one of the biggest players in the camera market in Germany. I have seen examples of German Kodak cameras from the 1930s with Leitz Elmar lenses, which was largely a carry through from the Nagel models. 

 

23 hours ago, nf3996 said:

No quibbling as to price. Maximum offers and prompt cash – you will get an amount which will buy you more, after the war, than the camera you sell us now.

I have a Leitz UK ( Mortimer Street) catalogue from 1938 which was overwritten in pencil with postwar prices. Those prices were approximately double the prewar prices. I wonder if Wallace Heaton was able to make good on its prewar promise.

William

Edited March 3, 2021 by willeica

[jpattison]

I inherited a small 35mm book of negatives taken during, and after, WWII on a Leica by a friend of my fathers. My dad was a Wireless Operator on Lancaster Bombers, but the Leica user was a Photographic Interpreter in the RAF on location throughout the Egypt campaign and via Sicily to Italy, from where he was invited by US intelligence to help translate from German! ( They only saw "Interpreter" on his credentials, although he had studied German at Manchester Grammar School !

He mistakenly left the camera on a bus in the 1950s, He gave me a Linhof tripod in the 1960s. I scanned the negs some years ago, I'll dig a few out. (including Mt Vesuvius erupting in the distance).

John

[Jerry Attrik]

Many, very many, years ago a friend of my father had a camera which was interesting.  Even at that young age I recognised it as a 'Leica'(?) later I did wonder if it had been a Reid.  Where the engraved inscription on the top plate should have been the metal had been milled out, leaving a shallow brass 'dish'. Father's friend explained that this was a German camera used by British forces and it would not 'do' if our troops knew that they were using 'enemy' equipment. This was, apparently, before the Reid and Sigrist cameras started to be come a little more plentiful; but never in large enough quantity.

[Matlock]

10 hours ago, Jerry Attrik said:

Many, very many, years ago a friend of my father had a camera which was interesting.  Even at that young age I recognised it as a 'Leica'(?) later I did wonder if it had been a Reid.  Where the engraved inscription on the top plate should have been the metal had been milled out, leaving a shallow brass 'dish'. Father's friend explained that this was a German camera used by British forces and it would not 'do' if our troops knew that they were using 'enemy' equipment. This was, apparently, before the Reid and Sigrist cameras started to be come a little more plentiful; but never in large enough quantity.

Remember that the Reid cameras were not produced until 1947 and only became available from around 1951. I would think the camera you mention was a Leica.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Matlock

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[roydonian]

On 3/2/2021 at 3:01 PM, nf3996 said:

 Maximum offers and prompt cash – you will get an amount which will buy you more, after the war, than the camera you sell us now.

But in practice, strict post-war currency controls meant that it would be impossible for an amateur to buy a new Leica or Contax until the late 1950s. Many who reponded to the advert and sold their cameras must have regretted doing so.

[pgk]

FWIW, I believe Gandolfi were asked if they would be interested in a contract to supply cameras to the military in WWII, but finally turned this down because they did not think that they had the capacity to fulfill it!