Frozen III

[setuporg]

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I've started to settle on the proper S strategy I think.

You should not compare S so any other MF system, notably X?D or GFX.  S has an OVF and its lenses are out of this world.  They render very differently.

S3 is probably the end of the line and outside of large prints, there's no advantage over 007.  Certainly not enough for the smallest $10K upgrade differential (over by now as the upgrade program has ended I assume, so $15K).  That is more than the cost of the GFX100S+80/1.7.

We'll most likely see what happened with Hasselblad V system.  The lenses will depreciate differently over 20 years.  The CFI 40mm still fetches $3.5K while a classic 150mm Sonnar is $150, and a new CFI one is $1K.  All excellent with the new 907x back.

Lenses might become cinema ones and will be used on SLx.  Perhaps Leica will open-source the spec so adapters for XCD or GFX will be developed.

We'll be able to pick up S3 at about $5K in 5 years or faster, based on 007 depreciation.

The system will become "frozen", unique, and if you have a good lens kit, extremely rare.

When we meet retired President Medvedev in his old age as a private citizen, we'll be some of the few people who will be able to reminisce about the S system in its heyday.:)

Edited March 1, 2021 by setuporg

[LeicaR10]

Setuporg,  I understand your strategy only I don't agree with it.  I find the S3 to be a big improvement with the sensor, color and other things like the increase exposure times etc.  My clients are very demanding for detail, rendering and look/feel of the photograph.  They want landscapes that make the viewer:  Stop, Look, Think and Feel something about the moment time. They tell me the photographs do that for them.  I am happy they pay a lot for the prints from the S3 and S system.  I didn't get that with the other MF cameras as I have mentioned in past posts and emails.  I must admit, the S system had it moments with the lenses and sensors in early S cameras.  Still that has not deterred me from owning and using it for my business.  For me, S camera delivers unlike any other MF camera out there.  Also, all digital cameras depreciate as you well know...like cars etc.  Most of us either lease, rent or in my case own the S system and write it off as a business expense.  I will stay in the S system way into the future, no matter the cost simply because the S system is in a class unto itself.  As you know, I go to remote and environmentally challenging locations for my clients.  The S system has never failed me.  Maybe I am lucky.  But there are many more S users out there who have the same "luck" and simply love the system, quirks and all.  IMO, there is no perfect camera, all have pros and cons.  For me, the pros far out weigh any cons.  Last, I saw a S3 in the B&H used dept in case you want to jump back in.  Also there are previously owned S lenses available with updated motors, but I noticed the prices are rising on those lenses across the board.  Whatever you decide for a MF type camera will be based on your needs.  I know you will keep creating excellent photographs no matter what camera you use.  After all, photography is about mastering the light and both creating a masterpiece photograph that captures that moment in time.  r/ Mark

Edited March 1, 2021 by LeicaR10

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[BernardC]

6 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've started to settle on the proper S strategy I think.

You are comparing the S system to "prosumer" cameras. That's not what it is. It shouldn't come as a surprise that it fails at being something it is not, and was never intended to be.

Those products that you compare it to have-to release updates every few months, and sell at tight margins. That's their business model. They also can't afford not-to implement every latest feature, even if most of them provide very little benefit to the final product. You can't fall behind on the "eye-triggered motioned-dampened auto-zoom" if the other cameras on the sales floor have that feature. I suspect that the target S-system customer doesn't much care for helper features.

Try re-doing your analysis from the point-of-view of a business investment. The system is not all that expensive if you depreciate it over 4 years. Lots of creatives pay a multiple of that just on a fancy SUV (talk about depreciation!). Granted, that type of analysis won't be great for us hobbyists. New S cameras will never be cheap, and they will never have the latest "tech." Leica has been very diligent about offering us special deals (demos, run-out models), but that's just a way of stabilizing stock levels. We are like the home chefs that like to use restaurant-grade pots, pans, and knives (not pro-look, that's completely different). We hobbyists are a small sub-market for the S. Whatever we wish for, we probably realize that the tail shouldn't wag the dog, so to speak.

[LeicaR10]

BernardC,   I totally agree with your post #3.  The S camera is designed foremost for working pro photographers who need the S capabilities.  Leica created the SL system for both pros and prosumer/amateur market who need/want the latest fad/widget, i.e, different niche.  As I mentioned before in other posts, the S system was created from the ground up as a digital MF camera, lenses and all for a specific type pro niche.  For me and many other photographers who need the S capability, it comes with a price that our clients make expenditures and that pays the freight so to speak for both equipment and salaries.  Thanks for your post.  r/ Mark

Edited March 2, 2021 by LeicaR10

[setuporg]

I agree with you both, guys.  I'm just making a point that the system is exactly that, frozen in time in a class of its own.  I have all the 10 lenses and 007 is perfect to exercise them.  I enjoy how simple it is to use and the OVF is something else.  The beauty of a Hasselblad 500 is that all urgency is gone.  It just helps you make art.  Same with the S.

[BernardC]

12 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

As I mentioned before in other posts, the S system was created from the ground up as a digital MF camera, lenses and all for a specific type pro niche.  For me and many other photographers who need the S capability, it comes with a price that our clients make expenditures and that pays the freight so to speak for both equipment and salaries. 

This point was explained to me very early. I was friends with a local professional when I was a teenager. His response to inevitable queries about the cost of his Hasselblad/Nikon kit was "plumbers spend more on their vans than I do on cameras!"  He also kept a spreadsheet of equipment used on every job (Lotus123, no doubt), and got rid of anything that wasn't earning money.