Convert 1 or more files from M8.2 DNG to TIFF

[SrMi]

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Topaz Denoise AI is far superior to the DxO noise elimination...

I have both, and prefer using DxO Deep Prime as a first step instead of Topaz Denoise AI. Unfortunately, not all cameras are supported by DxO.

Edited March 7, 2021 by SrMi

[MikeMyers]

On 3/7/2021 at 4:07 AM, jaapv said:

In the end there is very little difference between DNG and TIFF. I doubt whether you lose anything using uncompressed TIFF.

It's half a year later, and what I'm now doing is what was suggested up above - converting my Leica DNG images from the M8 camera into TIFF (using Apple's Preview app to do so), and then editing the images in DxO PhotoLab 5, working on the TIFF files.  After conversion, my 10.6 meg DNG file is turned into an 82.5 TIFF file.

The reason I don't shoot in 'jpg' is because shooting in 'raw' allows me much more flexibility when I edit the image.  How much of that flexibility might I lose, if I convert the DNG to TIFF, and then do my editing on the huge TIFF file?

I suspect that the only thing I'm likely to "lose" is file space.

 

Plan "B" for me is to edit the Leica M8.2 files in the Open Source editor, DarkTable.  Then there is no need for TIFF.   Hmm, is there any such thing as a compressed TIFF file format?

 

 

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[zeitz]

On 2/28/2021 at 3:27 PM, MikeMyers said:

works with these DNG images

There is no image in a .dng file.  There is only a table of values from your camera's sensor, along with the metadata from the creation of the file such as the camera's properties.  There is also room in a .dng file to store edit's made in a post-processing software such as Lightroom, which is why the file date changes as processing.  Alternately Lightroom can save edits in a .xmp sidecar file; when sidecars are used, there is absolutely no change to the original .dng file.  .tif is a raster image created from your camera's sensor data using some profile; .tif can store the same metadata and can save layers without collapsing them.  .psd is a newer version of .tif, but some consider .tif to be a more stable standard for long-term (archival) preservation of images.  .jpg cannot save layers; layers must be collapsed.  You may think you are dumping Adobe by using .tif, but both .dng and .tif are owned by Adobe along with .psd.  .xmp is now an ISO standard, but it too was created by Adobe.  .jpg is not owned by Adobe, nor was it created by Adobe.  All programs that use .dng, .tif, and .psd do so at the benevolence of Adobe because Adobe openly publishes the file specs for anyone to use.

[MikeMyers]

After reading your post several times, there is a lot of information there that I was not aware of before (or I forgot).  Apparently there is no good answer to my dilemma.  Adobe's .dng would be the best choice for me, as that is how my camera saves the data.  

So my choice becomes converting my Leica M8 .dng files into huge .tif files, as I'm doing now, or into .jpg files which limits my choices during processing.  I doubt DxO will spend the time and money to work with Leica M8 photos in PhotoLab, as so few people use the M8.  

Something I haven't even considered is to shoot in the Leica M8's .dng format, and use Apple Preview to convert the image to .jpg which would get me small file sizes and a universal image format.  In your opinion, how terrible an idea is that?  Or worded better, how much worse would it be to work with a .jpg image, rather than a .tif image, when both are being converted from a .dng format original image?  All my images eventually get converted to a .jpg for posting, emailing, etc.  

 

(I suppose I could also just do all my Leica M8 image editing in the Open Source software "DarkTable" and hope that it will eventually include the tools I use in DxO PhotoLab.)

[zeitz]

13 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

 In your opinion, how terrible an idea is that?

I think open source DarkTable is a very practical option for you to explore.  If you want an open source Photoshop equivalent, try Gimp.  Both work very well once you get used to them.  Remember that open source software depends on the continued interest of the group that contributes to the code.  These programs could disappear overnight, but I doubt they will.

But overall, you have to decide how serious you are about your photography and your post-processing.  If you are serious, if you want the best images you can get from your sensor, the usual choices are Capture One or the Adobe Photo Plan, often augmented with some plug-ins.  A wise person told me years ago, quit trying out new image processing software and spend your time becoming an expert user of Photoshop.  (Capture One didn't exist at the time.)

Do not try to find an alternative for .dng.  .dng is your friend.  Do consider using .xmp sidecars instead of placing edits directly in the original .dng file.

Finally, external storage is cheap, even in massive drive sizes.  Again, if you are serious, you will eventually want a RAID to protect against drive failures.

[MikeMyers]

A little bit of background - DxO creates software for every camera they support, that corrects for errors in lenses and camera bodies when used in images in RAW format.  As you open the file, a "preset" is applied to make those corrections (unless you turn that off).  DxO is so busy working on software for new cameras, that they're unlikely to go back to old cameras that are rarely used.  Apparently this does not apply to .jpg or .tif format files.  This allows DxO to create such good noise elimination software - they call the process "PRIME", and the latest version is "DeepPRIME".  .......back to me, while that's important, it's not the reason I decided to switch to DxO PhotoLab.

I've got lots of cameras, from many camera manufacturers, both film and digital.  This includes my M3, M2, M8.2, and M10 which are the cameras I'm concerned with in this forum.  The M2 and M3 eventually lead to scanned images, which works fine in PhotoLab.  The M10 is supported, and that (along with a Nikon D750) are currently my "main cameras".

The M8.2 is in a class by itself.  It is the only camera I own that works well for infrared photography.  I also agree with the people here who feel the M8 cameras with the CCD sensor can create lovely color images (if one is careful).

 

For example, the IR image below that I took a few days ago.....    and which I suspect I will soon be editing in DarkTable, with the image eventually going to PhotoLab.  Also, a fellow fishing, but I should have used the anti-IR filter for this one - my step-up ring for my 7Artisans 35mm f/2 will arrive in four days.  Both images are from the Chinese lens - the Chinese lens worked better for IR than my old collapsible Summicron 50.  

I guess what I'm really asking is how to get a Leica M8 dng file into DxO PhotoLab, using a different editor  in-between to convert the camera .dng image into a non-raw format that PhotoLab will accept.  As of today my best ideas is to open the .dng file in Adobe Preview, and convert to a 80-meg .tif file.  Hopefully there is a better way, perhaps editing first in DarkTable.

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[zeitz]

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39 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

DxO creates software for every camera they support, that corrects for errors in lenses and camera bodies when used in images in RAW format.

Lens adjustments are not unique to DxO, although DxO's corrections may be best in class.  In Lightroom it is in Develop; in Photoshop it is in ACR or in a Camera Raw Filter.  Lightroom Develop = ACR.

If you were to use a Phase One medium format camera with its .iiq raw files and you didn't want to use Capture One, you would have to start with Capture One, at least to save an image in .tif format.  (This is exactly what you were describing in your first post.)  Phase One does not let anyone else have access to the .iiq spec.  Capture One is excellent, but in the end I think it is more expensive than Adobe, if you keep up with all the releases.

I ordered a Nikon Z9 last month.  NX Studio will be the first to support the camera, followed soon by Adobe's products.

Here is the software I have on my computer:

- Photos - of no use for me, but may do all that is needed for some users

- Nikon software, includes NX Studio - I seldom use it; it is very good

- Capture One - I have some .iiq files from Phase One camera demonstrations.  Phase One gave me a license so I could work with the files.  Capture One has come a long way from when it was included with a Leica M8.  Capture One does not use .xmp sidecars.  Capture One has its own format.

- DarkTable - waiting for the time I may need it.  I monitor its progress.

- GIMP - waiting for the time I may need it.  I monitor its progress.

- Lightroom Classic - I seldom use it.  I'm not in the import/export business.  Nor do I use Libraries/Catalogs/Collections/Albums, etc.

- Bridge/ACR/Photoshop - An absolute must-have for what I do

 

[MikeMyers]

Thanks - I think I have all of the above, with the exception of GIMP.  For Nikon software, I need to update it should I want to use it.  I don't think I have Phase One, but it's been so long I'm not sure.  Photos - same as you.  Not sure what to do with it, so it just accumulates photos I take with my phone.  Capture One - again, have some, but don't use. Lightroom, Photoshop, Bridge, and so on I have them but rarely use them other than for channel swapping infrared color images.

My current issue is only what to do about photos I take with my M8.2 camera in .dng format.  I don't think I want to convert all of them to 80-meg TIFF files.  Unless things change,    I will re-learning how to use DarkTable.  Curious - when I'm finished editing, if I save my output from DarkTable as .tif, will those be 80-meg files, or something more reasonable?

 

Hmm, DarkTable created a new folder "darktable_exported", and saved a full-size jpg image 2.2 megs in size.  This might work out as an ideal way to get what I need from my M8.2 image files.  I can sent this file to PhotoLab to add my watermark.

Edited November 29, 2021 by MikeMyers
added a note at the end

[MikeMyers]

Oops, disregard anything and everything I've written about my issues with processing images from my M8.2 - I spent much of today learning how to use DarkTable, and it accepts my M8.2 dng files, seems to be able to do everything I need (so far), and while it was a real struggle, after several hours I just exported an image I took this afternoon and edited this evening in DarkTable.

Step by step, I found lots of "how-to" videos, and if I keep at this, I eventually might feel right at home with DarkTable.

No more need for 80-meg TIFF files, and no need to do anything with Apple Preview.

I took 8 images, ended up with 4, and that's the only one I worked on tonight.

I'll try this tomorrow with my Leica 35mm, either panning, or with a higher shutter speed.  

 

Again, thanks for all the advice.  By this time a few years from now, I may even be comfortable using DarkTable.   🙂

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[NZDavid]

Just one more that you might find useful: GraphicConverter for Mac, see: https://www.lemkesoft.de/en/products/graphicconverter/

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by NZDavid

[MikeMyers]

Thanks, @NZDavid, but with DarkTable there is no longer any need for conversion.  DarkTable accepts my M8 images, and I figure I'll eventually get used to using it.

[NZDavid]

Great, it may still be handy as a back-up -- fast and easy. have fun with the M8!

[SrMi]

RawTherapee is a free raw image processing platform. It is regarded as one of the best. However, I have only used it sporadically as my main tools are Adobe CC based.

[MikeMyers]

I do have Raw Therapee installed.  To me, Raw Therapee concentrates mostly on RAW images, and how to get the most out of them, while DarkTable is a general purpose image editor, which I can use for most purposes the way I would (and did) use Lightroom.   DarkTable seems to have all the tools I might want to us for processing my images, whatever format they may be in.  

Am I right in thinking the Raw Therapee is something I might use in addition to DarkTable, not instead of?

So far, all the tools that I'm likely to use or need in general purpose editing are included in DarkTable.  I don't know if it includes color channel switching, which I still do in Photoshop.

 

One more thing - I have pretty much moved to DxO PhotoLab for my image editing.  Unfortunately, PhotoLab doesn't accept images from my M8.2 camera, which is the whole reason why I'm now looking into another editor.  I enjoy using the M8, and it still does things that the M10 can't do, infrared photography.

 

[frame-it]

10 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

DarkTable seems to have all the tools I might want to us for processing my images, whatever format they may be in.  

 

[MikeMyers]

I picked several videos at random to help understand DarkTable.  The one you posted above is much better than what I found.  It's strange, how everything looks so easy in the video....   I'll try it on the images I took today.