DrM Posted February 27, 2021 Share #1 Posted February 27, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, In general I’m printing up to A3+. Is there somewhere a review on the real-life differences M10M and M10R/M10p in print (sharpness/tonality/..)? Can you really notice the differences in print between the monochrome and converting the M10 color images to B/W? The M10M seem to be overkill to me in most of the cases, and only the clean high ISO looks interesting (I rarely go beyond 6400). Best Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 Hi DrM, Take a look here Differences M10M and M10R/M10p in print. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted February 27, 2021 Share #2 Posted February 27, 2021 Everybody’s shooting, editing and print workflow differs, as well as their standards and preferences. Best way to know is to demo the camera and judge your own prints. I intend to rent an M10 M and see for myself. But my M9 Monochrom files are different at times than my M10 converted files, depending on conditions and circumstances. For me, the primary benefit of using a Monochrom is working with an all b/w workflow, and not being distracted with color photo opportunities. Different mindset, and potentially better pics. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrM Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted February 28, 2021 That full b/w experience I recognize as I get distracted easily by colors. I shoot 90% in b/w mode to be able to focus, even if the prints are in color. I was just wondering whether you can tell the difference in print, which is usually at 300 dpi. Is there, beyond the experience, a real life difference? BR, Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted February 28, 2021 Share #4 Posted February 28, 2021 That means you are shooting in JPG and already loosing information as from the beginning. I never print JPG, only DNG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 28, 2021 Share #5 Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, DrM said: That full b/w experience I recognize as I get distracted easily by colors. I shoot 90% in b/w mode to be able to focus, even if the prints are in color. I was just wondering whether you can tell the difference in print, which is usually at 300 dpi. Is there, beyond the experience, a real life difference? BR, Marc As I wrote, depends on conditions and circumstances, meaning shooting and editing (always DNG). . Already there are different workflows, as the color camera offers the use of color channels in post, while a Monochrom can only achieve this through colored lens filters. And depending on the scene, lighting, lens used, different editing actions, etc, there are many variables that make comparisons complex, before even getting into effective resolution and print size differences. My Monochrom has CCD sensor, while my M10 is CMOS, so that’s another subject for debate. Bottom line, the quality of my prints are more up to me than the camera; any shortfalls are mine. The cameras (and lenses) are all remarkably capable. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted February 28, 2021 Share #6 Posted February 28, 2021 17 hours ago, DrM said: Hi, In general I’m printing up to A3+. Is there somewhere a review on the real-life differences M10M and M10R/M10p in print (sharpness/tonality/..)? Can you really notice the differences in print between the monochrome and converting the M10 color images to B/W? The M10M seem to be overkill to me in most of the cases, and only the clean high ISO looks interesting (I rarely go beyond 6400). Best Marc Marc, I don't see much difference between A3 prints from M10M v. M10-P files, all other factors being equalized as much as possible (tripod, same lens, exposure, similar processing, same printing, etc). At that size I begin to see tonal and resolution differences if I really look closely. But as Jeff says, it depends on so many factors, including paper choice. Some papers will show a difference whereas others will not. In fact, at A3 size I saw no differences in prints from M9M and M10M. I rarely make a B&W print larger than that and when I tested the M10M, comparing it to my M9M, I asked myself if I really needed the M10M. Answer was no, I did not need it, but man did I want it for the form factor, user interface, improved finder, high ISO capability, etc, etc, etc. I also ran a little test, printing the same subject at letter size made under identical circumstances, with the M10-P, M9M and M10M, then I showed them to non-photographer friends and family. To me they all looked the same, but almost everyone picked the M9M prints over the others. What made the difference I have no idea, but I suspect it was subtle differences in my processing. If you want to carry only one camera, and use color at all (even occasionally), and want something better than your smart phone for color, I don't think you can go wrong with the M10-P or -R. I also put mine in BW mode. If the prints get rejected by MoMA, it won't be because you chose an M10-R over an M10M. [Also I've begun to look at photographs without my reading glasses on. It obfuscates all those distracting things, like sharpness, and lets me feel what the photographer wants me to feel.] 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrM Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted February 28, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, Gobert said: That means you are shooting in JPG and already loosing information as from the beginning. I never print JPG, only DNG. No, I toss the jpg and work only with DNGs. The b/w mode is just producing it as a by product to help me eliminate the colors. BR Marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrM Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share #8 Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Likaleica said: Marc, I don't see much difference between A3 prints from M10M v. M10-P files, all other factors being equalized as much as possible (tripod, same lens, exposure, similar processing, same printing, etc). At that size I begin to see tonal and resolution differences if I really look closely. But as Jeff says, it depends on so many factors, including paper choice. Some papers will show a difference whereas others will not. In fact, at A3 size I saw no differences in prints from M9M and M10M. I rarely make a B&W print larger than that and when I tested the M10M, comparing it to my M9M, I asked myself if I really needed the M10M. Answer was no, I did not need it, but man did I want it for the form factor, user interface, improved finder, high ISO capability, etc, etc, etc. I also ran a little test, printing the same subject at letter size made under identical circumstances, with the M10-P, M9M and M10M, then I showed them to non-photographer friends and family. To me they all looked the same, but almost everyone picked the M9M prints over the others. What made the difference I have no idea, but I suspect it was subtle differences in my processing. If you want to carry only one camera, and use color at all (even occasionally), and want something better than your smart phone for color, I don't think you can go wrong with the M10-P or -R. I also put mine in BW mode. If the prints get rejected by MoMA, it won't be because you chose an M10-R over an M10M. [Also I've begun to look at photographs without my reading glasses on. It obfuscates all those distracting things, like sharpness, and lets me feel what the photographer wants me to feel.] Yes , I know many parameters are part of the process, and it to be honest it is always me in case of an error :). Thanks for sharing your experiences. It kind of confirms that there are no result differences, and that the monochrome camera experience is coming from additional features like e.g high ISO performance. BR, Marc 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted February 28, 2021 Share #9 Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, DrM said: Yes , I know many parameters are part of the process, and it to be honest it is always me in case of an error :). Thanks for sharing your experiences. It kind of confirms that there are no result differences, and that the monochrome camera experience is coming from additional features like e.g high ISO performance. BR, Marc I'll add that high ISO performance was not a priority when I bought the M10M, but I have come to depend on it heavily. In dimmer light I can shoot fast shutter speed and stopped down lens without worrying. So, it's not just for night shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 28, 2021 Share #10 Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DrM said: Yes , I know many parameters are part of the process, and it to be honest it is always me in case of an error :). Thanks for sharing your experiences. It kind of confirms that there are no result differences, and that the monochrome camera experience is coming from additional features like e.g high ISO performance. BR, Marc But could make a difference IQ-wise for someone who prints really large and/or crops significantly, due to the higher effective resolution without the Bayer array. And, as noted, on some shots there can be tonal differences due to using color channels in post vs color filters or not. So, yes, there can potentially be differences, but only you can judge whether that means better or not. Apples to apples, the M10 Monochrom should be compared to the M10-R (same sensors except Bayer array), but I’ve not made that comparison. Jeff Edited February 28, 2021 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
didier Posted February 28, 2021 Share #11 Posted February 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Likaleica said: man did I want it for the form factor, user interface, improved finder, high ISO capability, etc, etc, etc. +1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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