Inverting Negatives in ACR

[tommonego@gmail.com]

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I have run into a problem inverting the tonal curve from the DNG copy of negatives in ACR. I saved some settings in an earlier version of ACR so I have been working from those. In that version I just slid the end points of the curve inverting the file, the work flow was:

Open the DNG file in ACR

Set the color balance of the film from an unexposed area

Invert the tonal curve

Get the color close using basic settings in ACR

Save the settings

Right now on the films I am working with, Portra 160 and general b&w I have settings saved so when I have a copy photo of the negative I just apply the settings, adjust as necessary. With b&w I don't have an issue, with color I don't have a way to set another film as the tonal curve will no longer allow an inversion, you can move one end of the curve or the other but not both. Does anyone one have a way around this?

[bags27]

Buy Negative Lab Pro? 😀

Was that a function of a new version of CR or maybe Big Sur? 

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[tommonego@gmail.com]

I think it is Adobe, it is the inversion of the negative, color is generally OK, but can be hit or miss, I use Photoshop not Lightroom. I am on a PC.

 

 

[250swb]

Never known a way to reliably invert colour negatives in Lightroom or Photoshop by ACR, although sometimes they could look vaguely OK through a balance of luck and the right type of negative. Without Negative Lab Pro or Negmaster it was always work that got the result.

[bags27]

3 hours ago, 250swb said:

Never known a way to reliably invert colour negatives in Lightroom or Photoshop by ACR, although sometimes they could look vaguely OK through a balance of luck and the right type of negative. Without Negative Lab Pro or Negmaster it was always work that got the result.

+1

[zeitz]

I assume you got the copy .dng file by taking a photo of a color negative with a camera.  And I assume you are using Bridge, ACR and Photoshop.  I think you are expecting too much from ACR when PS is the right tool.  If you want to use ACR adjustments, you can use a Camera Raw filter in PS.  You can make a duplicate background layer to leave the real background unchanged, and you can always make an action in Photoshop.  Save the new image file with layers intact as either a .psd or .tif file.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb zeitz:

I assume you got the copy .dng file by taking a photo of a color negative with a camera.  And I assume you are using Bridge, ACR and Photoshop.  I think you are expecting too much from ACR when PS is the right tool.  If you want to use ACR adjustments, you can use a Camera Raw filter in PS.  You can make a duplicate background layer to leave the real background unchanged, and you can always make an action in Photoshop.  Save the new image file with layers intact as either a .psd or .tif file.

The two main things I ask ACR to do is set the white balance of the film type and invert the image, well with in what ACR should be able to do. I was doing some adjustments but I found, Auto Tone and Auto Color in PS do that better, then I may use Levels to fine tune the color. Below is what I am getting, I have a setting for Portra 160, M3 35 Summilux pre-asph 1/30 f2.8. My concern is if I try a new film, have used Ektar with this setting and it seems to work OK, a little more tweeking of color.

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Edited February 26, 2021 by tommonego@gmail.com

[tommonego@gmail.com]

A bald eagle at a local bird rehab, educational center, the birds kept here are not able to survive on their own. M3 90 Elmarit Portra 160. Admittedly the structure color could be anything, focus on the bird especially look at the talons.

 

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[zeitz]

I don't understand "white balance of the film type".  I get the feeling you are having trouble removing the orange mask from color negatives.  I have never needed to do that, so I don't know how.  (There must be an article in Adobe's knowledge base that discusses this.)  But I assume, if there is not a specific tool in Photoshop, you pick the color across color wheel from the orange mask and add an adjustment layer of that color with the right transparency.  Over the years the orange masks used with color films changed, so each film type may well need a slightly different mask.

White balance and tint don't seem to me to be a good way to adjust color.  Hue or color balance or channel mixer adjustment layers would be my approach.  (Channel mixer may also be able to get rid of the orange mask.)  Then if you really want to go back to white balance and tint, you can use a Camera Raw filter.  An inversion layer is available in Photoshop.

Remember that ACR is at its heart a raw converter.  For instance if you open a .jpg file from Bridge, you go right to Photoshop because there is no raw table to convert.  (You can get ACR for a .jpg file if you right click and select "Open in Camera Raw".)  A set of tools have been added to ACR over the years to make it kind of work as a photo adjustment environment.  But it in no way replaces real Photoshop.  The added tools do allow the ACR software to be the Develop module in Lightroom.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I am working with DNG files, edit and save as jpeg, tiff if I am printing. The differences in masks seem is where taking a color balance works out, right now I have two save settings for color films, one for Portra 160 and another for Agfa Optima, which I used to use. The color balance is the only difference in the settings and I can't interchange them. I did use Ektar with the Portra setting and it seemed close, the bases are visiually similar. This does seem to neutralize the orange base. What I need to find out is how the inversion on the tonal curve works, in ACR this seems to be not possible to use right now. I have some Ektar, old Fuji and old Kodak negs that I want to digitize and neither setting I have works. This is a "trick" that was suggested to me about a year ago. 

The first image I probably should have exported as an sRGB as the Adobe RGB seems a little red, the eagle is right on, the non color of the paint of the enclosure is what it is.  

Thanks for the ACR Filter tip, I didn't know that. 

[250swb]

1 hour ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

 

The first image I probably should have exported as an sRGB as the Adobe RGB seems a little red, the eagle is right on, the non color of the paint of the enclosure is what it is.  

Thanks for the ACR Filter tip, I didn't know that. 

I tested the first image (trees) and to be honest if you just click 'Auto Color' and then 'Auto Contrast' in PS it gets you pretty close to where the next adjustments are the normal tweaks to saturation, contrast and brightness. When working on a colour negative in PS I keep referring back to 'Auto Color' as a check on is it better or worse than my adjustments. Irrespective of film type I think you can get your eye in with practice and work quickly.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Just did Auto Color on the image and it put it back to where it was before I decided to over correct, was looking a little blue to me. So I made maybe an ill conceived correction 😁. I am finding, inverting in ACR from my settings, then Auto Tone and Auto Color works about 75% of the time and is quick. The problem I am having is creating settings for other films as the tonal curve is not allowing me to invert it.

[peggers]

Here's a simple recipe for Photoshop or (Affinity for me):

1. Sample the colour of the orange mask
2. Add a solid colour layer using this colour
3. Set blend mode to Divide
4. Add an invert adjustment layer

This gives a good place to then process to taste. You can tweak the colour of the solid layer to tune the output...increasing / decreasing luminance is useful.

[tgray]

In my experience, using the white balance tool in ACR on he film base is a good start. Then I take it into PS for further adjustments, mostly with curves.  Auto color with the right settings gets you most of the way there with a negative that has broad exposure. You need to go a bit more manual if your negative has a strong but real color cast (i.e. taken in blue light or something). 
 

Inverting in ACR is workable, but I prefer to just do it once in PS. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by tgray

[philipus]

I use ColorPerfect for inverting and leave ACR for edits, sharpening and colour corrections (dust spotting is done in Photoshop). 

But I for fun I created a Photoshop action once to try to get a simple good enough inversion of C41. It just inverts the file, applies a Levels layer and leaves the dialog box open to let me pull the end sliders to the histogram's edges and use the grey point sampler. The results aren't as good as with ColorPerfect but they give a starting point for more corrections.