Advice for choosing a spotting scope for the SL2

[Stuart Richardson]

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Hello all. I figured I would ask this here, as I do not think too many people are reading the other smaller subforums. I have been looking at long lenses to use with my SL2. Currently my longest is the 180 S lens, but for some of the work that I do, I could use a very long lens. I live in Iceland and there is no shortage of really long sight lines, particular in the terms of mountain ranges etc. While there are atmospheric issues here, I think they are lower than in some places, given the cold air.

Meanwhile, earlier this year I moved into the countryside and am facing some mountains and woods. I was thinking about buying a spotting scope, and the idea of killing two birds with one stone crossed my mind. I would like to be able to view the mountains in the distance, birds and animals in the surroundings, as well as some casual viewing of the stars and moon. I imagine that dedicated photographic lenses are more suitable for photography, but is there a huge difference in optical performance? It seems like getting a APO-Televid 82 and the SL adapter would be a good way to have a spotting scope that could be used for photography as well, and I like the price in comparison to the cost of other Leica telephotos (280/4 and teleconverters or especially the APO telyt modules).

So I guess the question is two-fold:

1. How suitable are spotting scopes for photographic use in comparison to dedicated lenses?

2. Is the APO-Televid 82 a good photographic comparison to comparable choices from Swarovski and Zeiss (or Vortex etc)?

My mom is a long time birder, so I am pretty familiar with Swarovski's dominance in sport optics, but I also know that some of the priorities for scopes and binoculars are different than lenses. Presumably resolution is less important since it is more limited by the eye (it is not being magnified drastically), and things like brightness and contrast are more important.

In any case, I would love to hear some advice from the people who have waded deeper into these waters. I have a great pair of Swarovski binoculars (sometimes you have to listen to your mother, even if you are a Leica loyalist), but I have never owned a scope, nor any of Leica's lenses longer than 180mm.

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[beewee]

36 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

How suitable are spotting scopes for photographic use in comparison to dedicated lenses?

You’ll be disappointed. The image circle even for a large scope is much smaller than a 35mm frame.

[Alan Friedman]

A small telescope might be a way to go. There are a number of highly corrected apochromats that would fully illuminate a 24x36mm sensor. I use a very compact 450mm f5 fluorite triplet telescope for solar photography and have experimented a bit with terrestrial imaging with it, though usually with a monochrome streaming camera because it’s what I travel with for astronomy. But with a 2” nosepiece connected to a camera (I have a Nikon mount version that I could attach to my SL using a Nikon-L mount adapter) it should work well using the EVF or live view to focus. A think a summer vacation project is in order!

[Virob]

You might what to check out  Bird.net, they have a dedicated forum on digiscoping. Birders seem to be the most active in the area, and picky about spotting scopes. The reigning king of spotting scopes for many years has been the Kowa 88.

I have a Kowa 550 and was going to get an adapter for the Q2. Thanks for reminding me🙂.

[aksclix]

with a Canon EF - L adapter there might be more choices since the EF mount should have an array of already figured out configurations? Maybe this adapter could let you try your Swarovski? 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892769-REG/Swarovski_49130_T2_Adapter_Canon.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQiAj9iBBhCJARIsAE9qRtBDkOfqO3U14d5hYO2XUdHlJ50oD0mDEQuZ8Wm0vumJhRlqhLBTL9oaAqePEALw_wcB

[aksclix]

my bad you have binoculars not a spotting scope.. 

[Stuart Richardson]

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Thank you all. Leica makes a T2 to M and T2 to L mount, so those could work, though they are, like everything Leica makes, at least two or three times more expensive than anyone else. It seems as though the digiscoping is not comparable to photographic lenses, even with the high end adapters (like the Swarovski TLS APO). So at this point I think I will focus on getting the kind of scope that works for me, and worry a bit less about the adapting. I was not expecting huge prints, but it seems like even the best of the best scopes are mediocre to terrible photographic lenses. But that makes sense when the APO Telyt 82 can sell for 2000 dollars on ebay and the APO Telyt Modul R lenses sell for 20,000. A more practical route would probably be to buy a moderately priced scope and a moderately priced long telephoto instead of a really good scope and an adapter, but in the end I will probably buy a very good scope and wait to buy a good telephoto.

[Alan Friedman]

The eye looking through an eyepiece has wonderful adaptation to many optical issues that we split hairs about in a photograph. I would agree that a spotting scope for birding would not be suitable. But today's highly corrected apochromatic telescope will bring visible light to a very tight plane of focus and will be a fine photographic instrument - without the multiple lenses (and subsequent additional air to glass surfaces) required for focusing. Focusing would be accomplished by moving the camera body to the focus plane. Most telescopes designed for astro-photography will correct chromatic and spherical aberration to a high degree and have correctors available to improve the field flatness if needed - probably not needed for photographs of birds at a long focal length. Just a thought, but if you enjoy the stars, a small telescope might be a great instrument to add to your stable. Here is a picture of my small telescope set up for solar imaging. The actual 92mm f5 telescope is about 11 inches long and weighs about 6 pounds.  

[Stuart Richardson]

Thank you Alan. That is another interesting direction to go in. Is this usable for terrestrial objects? If so, do you know roughly how closely it focuses? Is the image in the viewer/camera right side up and properly orientated, or is it inverted vertically and horizontally? I am interested in doing some photography and astronomical observation, but the majority of the use would be terrestrial, of mountains, the lake and birds/animals.

Beautiful photos, by the way! I guess many of these were taken with a more substantial scope?

[Alan Friedman]

15 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Thank you Alan. That is another interesting direction to go in. Is this usable for terrestrial objects? If so, do you know roughly how closely it focuses? Is the image in the viewer/camera right side up and properly orientated, or is it inverted vertically and horizontally? I am interested in doing some photography and astronomical observation, but the majority of the use would be terrestrial, of mountains, the lake and birds/animals.

Beautiful photos, by the way! I guess many of these were taken with a more substantial scope?

Hi Stuart... this method is certainly suited for terrestrial photography, though it will take some experimentation to establish a set-up that suits your projects. It might not be as "portable" as a dedicated long telephoto lens. I have a running vacation project that involves setting up my small telescope on a tripod at the boat house in New Hampshire and scanning the opposite shores of the lake for interesting scenery. I generally use one of my streaming industrial cameras here, with the image displayed and the camera shutter operated from a laptop. My astronomy cameras are monochrome, very small and are not filtered for IR wavelengths, so interesting results can be had using an IR pass filter. I've attached a few samples below. This camera is a 6mp sensor - large for streaming, but small compared to still cameras obviously.

Connecting a Leica SL series camera or other mirrorless camera should work great. The image would be converted to a normal (erect) view in the viewfinder as it is with any lens in place. Through an eyepiece, the view would be inverted unless you used an image erecting diagonal. This is how a spotting scope or binoculars presents a correct view in the eyepiece. This would be a good accessory for birding or terrestrial observation - not needed for astronomy observation or for photography. I had an interesting experience many years ago during a solar observing session in Florida. Clouds rolled in and I pointed the telescope to an osprey in a nearby tree dining on a fish. After a number of minutes at the eyepiece, I noticed that my brain had inverted the upside bird for me and the inversion no longer bothered me. Purely brain at work here... but an interesting experience. 

Using telescopes for photography, one gets to learn the differences from standard photographic lenses. The telescope is almost always (with the exception of certain observations of the sun) used at its full aperture and the telescope is designed to be fully corrected wide open, as this is where the resolution (theoretical) of the lens is at its highest. No stopping down the lens to f11 for sharpness. Focus is accomplished by moving the camera in the focuser. Close focus is possible using extension tubes to increase the distance between camera and lens, if the focuser travel is not sufficient to get to where you want to be. The discussion is moving me to do some experimentation with my Sigma FP, which is such a light camera body - it should be well suited to sitting at the back end of almost any focuser. The SL or SL2 should work well too, as long as the focuser is robust enough to carry the weight. 

And thanks for the kind words on my images... most of the solar photos are captured with my smallest telescope. I have done work in the past on the moon and planets using a much larger instrument - a 10" f14.6 scope, with tele-extenders a 7500mm telephoto. 

clear skies and good luck!

Alan

 

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Edited February 25, 2021 by Alan Friedman

[Stuart Richardson]

Thanks for all the information Alan. It sounds like it is full of possibilities. Of course I forgot about how the image would be automatically transformed by the mirrorless camera...lol. And I am even a large format user! I wish I knew more about telescopes, but will have to do some research. My mom has been a very serious birder for my entire life (she literally would take me out of school to help band birds during the spring and fall migrations), so I have a pretty good understanding of the market for scopes, as well as how they work, render etc, but the astronomy market is an area I have no feel for. Thanks for the kickstart!

[Alan Friedman]

7 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Thanks for all the information Alan. It sounds like it is full of possibilities. Of course I forgot about how the image would be automatically transformed by the mirrorless camera...lol. And I am even a large format user! I wish I knew more about telescopes, but will have to do some research. My mom has been a very serious birder for my entire life (she literally would take me out of school to help band birds during the spring and fall migrations), so I have a pretty good understanding of the market for scopes, as well as how they work, render etc, but the astronomy market is an area I have no feel for. Thanks for the kickstart!

My pleasure... talking telescopes is one of my passions. ;^) The scope that I use most often and that I used to capture the photos above was originally developed as a dual birding and night sky instrument. It remains in production today (with a waiting list) with a slightly different optical design and focal length. Here is a link to the specs on the original. A small, high quality refractor is a jewel and a popular choice for astronomy enthusiasts - as a highly portable travel scope for use by itself and as a finder telescope mounted tandem to a larger instrument. There are some very good choices out there. Cheers! Alan

Edited February 26, 2021 by Alan Friedman