paulcurtis Posted February 17, 2021 Share #1 Posted February 17, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've been googling but i've not yet found a direct head to head with the Leica APO vs The Lathar APO. My specific concern is purple fringing and green/magenta bokeh. Some background. This is for cinema work, so lack of purple fringing/CA is important because i don't want to be grading this stuff out in motion. For my main camera i use cinema APO lenses and they are wonderful. But i have a Red Komodo, and i am using my Leica Ms on it and it's a great combo in terms of size/weight. However i am hitting the MFD of the leica and whilst i am using a helicoid adapter (M to RF) it's still a pain in terms of an actual shoot. So i noticed that the Lanthar is down to 0.5m. Now has to be said i used to have lots of voightlanders and over time i sold these and consolidated to Leica Ms for stills work. (I have 28mm cron, 50mm cron and 90mm APO cron). I am very happy with my Leicas. But in motion i find myself looking back to the newer voightlanders. But i was never that happy with the image out of them. However the 50mm Lanthar and the announced 35mm are interesting again. But from online reviews i do see a lot of purple fringing and CA and i am just not sure about the bokeh 'feel' of them. I need to match my cinema APOs and they are CA free and buttery smooth bokeh. So in an ideal world i'm looking for the 3 way comparison above, same lens in different demanding situations because i know what the cron is like so i have a reference there. And FWIW i find the performance of the 50 cron very good, even though it's not an APO for 99% of conditions it performs well enough for me. cheers Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 17, 2021 Posted February 17, 2021 Hi paulcurtis, Take a look here Lecia 50mm cron vs Lecia APO vs CV Lanthar APO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mmradman Posted February 17, 2021 Share #2 Posted February 17, 2021 Isn't it disapointing when infinite wsdom of th internet turns zero results, but, all is not lost. Who better than Cinema professional to rent [or buy] what he needs to make three way comparison, we will be greatly appreciatieve of your efforts. Alternatively try contacting one of pro lens reviewers, they may be able to help, I belive they also need to eat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp2000 Posted February 17, 2021 Share #3 Posted February 17, 2021 I've said this in a few places, you'll get purple fringing in the APO Summicron too - I've done side by side comparisons with that and the Summilux in very aggressively backlit situations and the APO was worse than the Summilux. Bad copy? Perhaps, but I just don't think CA is unavoidable on the APO Summicron. I would say though, if the Summicron does you for 99% of situations, how much does the other 1% matter on a $ vs % basis? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 17, 2021 Share #4 Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) No idea about the Lanthar but i can comment about Leica M 50/2 v5 and 50/2 apo re purple/green fringing if it is of any interest. Bottom line the 50/2 apo shows less fringing than the 50/2 v5 but none is free from it. Edited February 17, 2021 by lct 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giannis Posted February 18, 2021 Share #5 Posted February 18, 2021 18 hours ago, paulcurtis said: My specific concern is purple fringing and green/magenta bokeh. Some background. This is for cinema work, so lack of purple fringing/CA is important because i don't want to be grading this stuff out in motion. Since you're worried about fringing, I assumed you've already taken care of more pressing issues, like focus breathing? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcurtis Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share #6 Posted February 18, 2021 21 hours ago, Tp2000 said: I've said this in a few places, you'll get purple fringing in the APO Summicron too - I've done side by side comparisons with that and the Summilux in very aggressively backlit situations and the APO was worse than the Summilux. Bad copy? Perhaps, but I just don't think CA is unavoidable on the APO Summicron. I would say though, if the Summicron does you for 99% of situations, how much does the other 1% matter on a $ vs % basis? I've been through more 50s than i care to imagine! There's a certain feeling that i like which is more often down to APO characteristics, a smooth bokeh and reduced magenta/green tint forward and back of focus and controlled purple fringing. Lenses like the Arri Signatures and Zeiss Supremes all have these characteristics. I've found the humble 50 cron, (v4 i think) at least my one, has the feeling too. The 28 cron (latest version) also does, and the 90 APO as well. Not all of these are technical APOs but the performance seems to suggest that feeling. I do wonder whether i just happen to have a great copy of the 50 cron. Prior to that i had the CV 50mm f1.5 and it was night and day between them. thanks Paul 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcurtis Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted February 18, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 20 hours ago, lct said: No idea about the Lanthar but i can comment about Leica M 50/2 v5 and 50/2 apo re purple/green fringing if it is of any interest. Bottom line the 50/2 apo shows less fringing than the 50/2 v5 but none is free from it. Thanks for the info - do you have any side by sides handy? There's plenty of lens to lens variation but the 50 cron i have seems really good cheers Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcurtis Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share #8 Posted February 18, 2021 5 hours ago, giannis said: Since you're worried about fringing, I assumed you've already taken care of more pressing issues, like focus breathing? I don't know how the Lanthar breaths - i saw some footage and it didn't leap out. I'm not overly affected as much by that as i am by general bokeh/colouration and purple fringing. I think as part of a moving sequence breathing can be part of the shot (within reason) but the feeling of the background is deeply embedded in it. I'm happy with the 50 cron save for MFD. With a helicoid i can get around this but it's not that practical for shooting. The lanthar goes down to 50cm and there will be a 35mm version too so that's interesting from a unified look. Sadly i don't know whether there are plans to do the 60 and 125 macro on M mount. Think the 50 APO Leica is 0.7 as well, isn't it? thanks Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS Posted February 18, 2021 Share #9 Posted February 18, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 8:25 AM, paulcurtis said: So i noticed that the Lanthar is down to 0.5m. cheers Paul The 50mm F2 APO-Lanthar has a minimum focus of 0.7m, not 0.5m. Are you talking about the 35mm F2 APO-Lanthar? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcurtis Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share #10 Posted February 18, 2021 22 hours ago, mmradman said: Isn't it disapointing when infinite wsdom of th internet turns zero results, but, all is not lost. Who better than Cinema professional to rent [or buy] what he needs to make three way comparison, we will be greatly appreciatieve of your efforts. Alternatively try contacting one of pro lens reviewers, they may be able to help, I belive they also need to eat. I have tried renting M mount lenses before. At least in the UK i was unable to find any. That would be ideal. But i'm happy with technical comparisons, side by sides and even the occasional brick wall can work. Let alone cats. cheers Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 18, 2021 Share #11 Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, paulcurtis said: Thanks for the info - do you have any side by sides handy? There's plenty of lens to lens variation but the 50 cron i have seems really good I have no side by side comparos on hand sorry but none of my 50/2 v4 or v5 is brilliant re CA i must say with purple fringes before and green fringes behind the plane of focus. Can be reduced by stopping down though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcurtis Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share #12 Posted February 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, BrianS said: The 50mm F2 APO-Lanthar has a minimum focus of 0.7m, not 0.5m. Are you talking about the 35mm F2 APO-Lanthar? Brian This whole thing started because i am convinced i read 0.5m for it, but on double checking i am seeing 0.7... So either what i read originally was wrong or a read the E mount version by mistake. You are right of course and in some strange way that answers my question! Bugger. I guess this isn't the lens i'm looking for! thank you! Paul 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS Posted February 18, 2021 Share #13 Posted February 18, 2021 https://www.jenoptik.us/products/optical-systems/customized-and-standardized-objective-lenses/multispectral-objective-lenses How fast of a lens do you need? I'd be tempted to try an ultra-achromat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_talber Posted February 18, 2021 Share #14 Posted February 18, 2021 Stick with the 50 'cron. You know it's a beauty of a lens. If you're looking for a spectacular Voigtlander, however, try the 42.5mm - I find it produces excellent images, although the focal length is slightly tighter. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcurtis Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share #15 Posted February 19, 2021 19 hours ago, BrianS said: https://www.jenoptik.us/products/optical-systems/customized-and-standardized-objective-lenses/multispectral-objective-lenses How fast of a lens do you need? I'd be tempted to try an ultra-achromat. I'm all for experimenting and have been down the edmunds optics in the past. But really i'm about an overall feel. There are a handful of lens designers that appear to have similar aesthetics to me. There's one Dulens who are doing a serious of APO micro cine primes and that project is looking really nice - again prioritising look and feel over absolutes like resolution. In motion everything is 1/50th, so as soon as there's any movement resolution becomes moot - everything else matters so much more. So have you tried an ultra-achromat - there's an older stills lens that seems to be one? cheers Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS Posted February 19, 2021 Share #16 Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) I have the Pentax 85/4.5 Ultra-Achromat, used for technical work. A couple of years ago used it with a full-spectrum Olympus EP2. I also put it on the M Monochrom to test focus shift due to CA. There was none with this lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Coastal Optics has a 60mm lens available, closer to the focal length you are interested in. Thought it might be worth looking at. It can be rented- https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/coastal-optics-uv-vis-ir-60mm-macro-for-nikon Some years ago I used my Pentax 85/4.5 on a Fujica ST801 to see what color rendition was like "just in visible". It was gorgeous. Edited February 19, 2021 by BrianS 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Coastal Optics has a 60mm lens available, closer to the focal length you are interested in. Thought it might be worth looking at. It can be rented- https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/coastal-optics-uv-vis-ir-60mm-macro-for-nikon Some years ago I used my Pentax 85/4.5 on a Fujica ST801 to see what color rendition was like "just in visible". It was gorgeous. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318104-lecia-50mm-cron-vs-lecia-apo-vs-cv-lanthar-apo/?do=findComment&comment=4144537'>More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted February 19, 2021 Share #17 Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) @paulcurtis There is always exactly what you are looking for somewhere on the web, it only depends how thorough you look. Comparison of Voigt Lanthar 50 AA with M 50 Apo (google translate it):https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=254&t=5975261 Thank me later. Edited February 19, 2021 by Al Brown Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted February 19, 2021 Share #18 Posted February 19, 2021 And more:https://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/1763325/blog/44836065/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkinners Posted February 19, 2021 Share #19 Posted February 19, 2021 I don't have the Lanthar APO nor the 50 Cron but I do have the APO50. I can tell you that the purple fringing is present at focus plane on extreme contrast object. LoCA is virtually non-issue, even wide open, you can find a little bit of LoCA around the bokeh ball around the edge of the frame but it's so minimal I don't think need correcting in post at all. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted February 19, 2021 Share #20 Posted February 19, 2021 Not sure why the 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH is not included on this list. Low levels of fringing (some say it is an unlabelled APO lens) silky smooth background blur, perfectly suitable for video production: 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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