costa43 Posted February 5, 2021 Share #1 Posted February 5, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi guys What works in your experience. Shooting at base ISO and pushing exposure in post. (Highlights may benefit) or shooting at correct ISO for exposure in camera? Thanks Costa 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 Hi costa43, Take a look here M9-p ISO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
elmars Posted February 5, 2021 Share #2 Posted February 5, 2021 It doesn‘t matter. Main difference is the preview picture on the screen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted February 5, 2021 Share #3 Posted February 5, 2021 M9P ISO is no difference from M9, M-E 220 ISO. If I want shutter speed to avoid motion blur on moving people, low ISO pushing in PP never worked for me. For else... With f1.4-f1.5 lenses wide open and in low light I leave all in auto and my M-E 220 chooses low ISO with not too slow shutter speed. But I still have to watch it. If it isn't very dark, my M-E 220 does overexpose. I have to dial in -1. Once it is darker I have to dial 0. But who knows how M9P works... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share #4 Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, elmars said: It doesn‘t matter. Main difference is the preview picture on the screen. As in the exposure will pretty much look the same once you push it in post? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share #5 Posted February 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said: M9P ISO is no difference from M9, M-E 220 ISO. If I want shutter speed to avoid motion blur on moving people, low ISO pushing in PP never worked for me. For else... With f1.4-f1.5 lenses wide open and in low light I leave all in auto and my M-E 220 chooses low ISO with not too slow shutter speed. But I still have to watch it. If it isn't very dark, my M-E 220 does overexpose. I have to dial in -1. Once it is darker I have to dial 0. But who knows how M9P works... I shoot manual with the m8 and now m9-p but was just curious. I think the m9-p and m9 are the same camera so doubt there will be a difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted February 5, 2021 Share #6 Posted February 5, 2021 vor 58 Minuten schrieb costa43: As in the exposure will pretty much look the same once you push it in post? Yes, so ist my experience with the M9. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted February 5, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 8 minutes ago, elmars said: Yes, so ist my experience with the M9. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted February 5, 2021 Share #8 Posted February 5, 2021 My understanding is that the m9 chip becomes iso invariant at 640 So I set that as my max iso because there's no difference from there on between amplifying the signal in the camera or on the computer, well 2021 software is probably better than 2009 in camera NR! Below 640 you should get a lower noise image by raising the iso in camera than you will pushing in post because as I understand it, the amplification is happening pre-ADC The differences shouldn't be night and day but with the m9 any noise reduction is useful 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 5, 2021 Share #9 Posted February 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said: My understanding is that the m9 chip becomes iso invariant at 640... There's been a lot written about this and the conclusion has been the reverse of this: that, with the M9, the signal to noise ratio is better if you shoot at ISO 640 and "push" exposure in post processing, rather than increasing the ISO in the camera. There is a LUF thread on this and there is the careful work done by Jim Kasson in his articles here and here. There is also the fact that, generally, shooting at higher ISO has, increasingly, lower dynamic range: this means that it gets increasingly important to get the exposure right — which is generally more difficult in the light in images such as the ones below. M9 | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Pushed 2 stops | Pak Nam Pran Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M9 | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Pushed 1 stop | Bangkok M9 | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Pushed 1½ stops | Bangkok________________________Frog Leaping photobook Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M9 | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Pushed 1 stop | Bangkok M9 | Elmarit 21 ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/45 sec | Pushed 1½ stops | Bangkok________________________ Frog Leaping photobook ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317695-m9-p-iso/?do=findComment&comment=4134407'>More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted February 5, 2021 Share #10 Posted February 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: There's been a lot written about this and the conclusion has been the reverse of this: that, with the M9, the signal to noise ratio is better if you shoot at ISO 640 and "push" exposure in post processing, rather than increasing the ISO in the camera. __ Frog Leaping photobook I must not have been very clear because that's exactly what I meant I never take the m9 over 640 If I need more iso than that I brighten in post Below 640 I raise iso in camera (eg 160-640) and attempt to produce an exposure that doesn't necessitate much pushing in post Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 5, 2021 Share #11 Posted February 5, 2021 ^ I think the problem is that you wrote that the M9 "becomes ISO invariant at 640". Actually, the M9 is effectively ISO-less between ISO 160 and 640. ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted February 5, 2021 Share #12 Posted February 5, 2021 28 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: ^ I think the problem is that you wrote that the M9 "becomes ISO invariant at 640". Actually, the M9 is effectively ISO-less between ISO 160 and 640. ________________________Frog Leaping photobook The problem is that I wrote "at" when I meant after You have it the wrong way round. The M9 is ISO-less after 640, not before Before ISO640 the M9 will use pre-ADC amplification, if you underexpose in this ISO range you'll introduce additional noise that the sensor needn't have captured, then amplify that noise when you push later in PP After 640 the M9 will be reliant upon post ADC amplification, effectively meaning adding brightness is the same in post as it is in camera (ie ISO-invariant) This fact is also demonstrated in the Jim Kasson article you linked You’ll get the best results at ISO 160 with ETTR. If depth of field, subject or camera motion, or other things keep you from doing that, you’ll get slightly better results in the mids and higher tones by turning up the ISO to keep the histogram to the right than you will pushing equivalently in LR or ACR, and you’ll get essentially the same in the shadows. That’s only true up to ISO 640. After that, let the histogram go to the left and fix it in your raw developer program. (Bold emphasis added by me) That the lowest noise and highest DR is at ISO 160 should be no surprise to anyone But Kasson is very clear before ISO640 raise ISO in camera, after ISO640 don't bother (I spent a while researching all of this back when I got the M9 as I was coming from a 100% ISO-less camera and entering the world of Leica and I remember reading this article then) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS Posted February 13, 2021 Share #13 Posted February 13, 2021 On the M9- I use ISO2500 routinely in low-light. For the M8 in RAW mode, I leave it at ISO160, under-expose, and boost in post. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Same with the M Monochrom at ISO 5000 and 10000. I did find that fast memory cards caused banding noise in my high ISO images. I use PNY and Sandisk 4x cards in the M9, M monochrom, and M8. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Same with the M Monochrom at ISO 5000 and 10000. I did find that fast memory cards caused banding noise in my high ISO images. I use PNY and Sandisk 4x cards in the M9, M monochrom, and M8. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317695-m9-p-iso/?do=findComment&comment=4139590'>More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted February 16, 2021 Share #14 Posted February 16, 2021 Does not matter where you push, result is same. Unless you shoot at low , expand to 100-% and remove all noise, then push. Preview is of course very dark. You can also make an edge mask and remove noise and the edges stay sharp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 17, 2021 Share #15 Posted February 17, 2021 On 2/15/2021 at 7:46 PM, tobey bilek said: Does not matter where you push, result is same. Unless you shoot at low , expand to 100-% and remove all noise, then push... That's actually not the case, as Jim Kannon proves conclusively through his test work and graphs in his articles linked in post #9 above. ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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