Choosing another lens: Noctilux-M 50mm or 75mm?

[SiggiGun]

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Rachelle:

@Narsuitus I agree with the 50 being too close to 35. I had my moment of  "I can save a bit more $ with this Noctilux". I've read some comments that the Summilux can give both a nice soft look (wide open) and sharpness (stopped down). So its nice to have that versatility with the subjects I shoot. 

I agree, also the focus hub of the 75lux is very long. That means not fast but very precis and easy to foculs.

[ibramr]

I am not qualified to answer this question because I don’t have, or tried,  the Noctilux 75mm.  However,  I suggest approaching it from the perspective that “quantity has a quality of its own.”  Ownership of the Noctilux 50mm f0.95 and the Summilux 75mm f1.4 is within the same price range of the Noctilux 75mm alone.  Both lenses will likely offer a wider range of opportunities in comparison to the Noctilux 75mm alone.  
 

It is noteworthy that the Noctilux 50mm f0.95 has crowded out all other superb lenses I have, including the 75mm Summilux discussed here.  It is possible that the Noctilux 75mm will have a similar effect on its users, i.e., crowding out other lenses, but then I start to think about the lost opportunities because of the narrower perspective of this is long-normal lens.  Good luck. 

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[a.noctilux]

Rachelle, I have two suggestions

(with my factors of course, yours may differ, that's fine for me )

1 - those lenses are not easy to love/hate with little time of practice, as in a shop for example

my suggestion is to try the first that you can buy and use it a while, then the two other ones (if required)

2 - at first, I'd buy Summilux-M 1.4/75 ( I know well this one 😇 ), but you would want to know/try Noctilux 50/75

[pedaes]

7 hours ago, me111 said:

, especially jpeg

What is the point of shooting jpegs with a Noctilux? 

[me111]

11 minutes ago, pedaes said:

What is the point of shooting jpegs with a Noctilux? 

Why not?

[a.noctilux]

20 minutes ago, me111 said:

Why not?

If the results are good enough in jpeg.

DNG can be better if required,

but "better comparing to ...".

 

[Dr No]

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The 75mm Noctilux is a very special and near perfect reference grade lens that costs a considerable fortune today.

The 75mm Summilux is a very special and imperfectly beautiful lens that will probably cost a considerable fortune in the future.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Dr No

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

good enough

If you are spending Noctilux money and investing the time needed to learn to use it, why settle for 'good enough'. I don't think many of the images we admire were taken as jpegs. If you do happen to take a potential 'master shot', isn't it better to have a RAW image to be able to develop it's full potential?

It's not about DNG being better , it is about have maximum detail that you can develop. You can't even adjust white balance with a jpeg - and I don't see many jpeg shooters with a grey card in their hand, so 'getting it right in camera' dosn't cut it. All IMHO of course😀

Appreciate this is a equipment thread, not a picture thread. 

[a.noctilux]

It was provocation post 😇,

as long ago, I used only jpeg from M8, even with Noctilux 😉,

but when I've tried out DNG, so different possibilities showed...

since then I  take "DNG only" with my M.

My M-D doesn't give choice, anyway.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by a.noctilux

[jaeger]

Anything 75 Noct can do, Canon 85mm f1.2 does better.   You can buy a 85mm f/1.2 + R5 and still have change lol

[g2van]

Great discussion!  I can definitely identify with some of the points made by the OP.

50 and 75mm is and was always tugging at me - mostly due to reading different opinions and reviews!!

I did own the 75/1.4 cos of the allure of Mandler but found it difficult to use, to focus fast enough wide open and the tiny framelines. Part of the reason I convinced myself to get this was that I could easily sell it if it didn't work. I finally sold it mostly because I didn't find the "look" worth the trouble and the cost. 

So I went for the 50 Noct and now have the Noct v3 (without built-in hood) and it ticks all the boxes for me: distinct look which I love (IMHO more "artistic" than Noct 0.95) and just at the limit of size, length and weight where I can still use it as a walk around lens all day in summer (that was sort of the final test!). How one prefers to carry the camera makes a big difference in using larger, longer and heavier lenses!

Recently the allure of the 75 came back and I ended up with the CV 75/1.5 and it's been fabulous - it's light, small, easy to focus, sharp, modern and very decently priced.

Then, with the money "saved" by getting the CV 75/1.5 instead of any Leica 75, I got the 7Artisans 50/1.1 as a "bang around" baby Noct - for hiking (or rougher situations) and lighter kit but when I still want the speed. Obviously it's look is nowhere close to the Noct f1 signature but wide open it's a nice classic look and it's totally fine.

If one is only going to use a camera mostly in studio or always carrying a heavier bag/kit, then weight considerations are irrelevant.

So I think the long and short of my input is to consider factors like: weight, cost, look, situational use and other alternatives.

 

[newtoleica]

Dear Rachelle,

My first M lens was a 35 Summilux and its a good question. Getting a bit more distance for a more cropped portrait is a good next move if that interests you more than going wider (and that is a little tricky on the M unless you want to use a secondary viewfinder or get good at estimating!). The Noctilux and both the 75s (Noctilux and Summilux) have very very thin depth of field wide open (and that's what you're paying for and having the bulk for). This is too thin for portraits, you'll get one eye in, the other out of focus, fuzzy noses etc. 

Could I suggest a much cheaper but more practical alternative? The (only available used) 90mm f2.9 Elmarit M is ideal both for subject distance, DOF at f2.8 and rendering. Also smaller and lighter. 90mm is a bit of a challenge on an M, but the 1.4 viewfinder magnifier helps.

If you're looking at 50mm still, how about the APO 50 Summicron F2? The rendering an 'pop' are sublime.... Its quite a different 'look' to the 35mm and no where close in my view.

My kit is a 24 Summilux, 35 Summilux, 50 APO Cron and 90 Elmarit.

Regards

Brendan

[Rachelle]

 

9 hours ago, newtoleica said:

Dear Rachelle,

My first M lens was a 35 Summilux and its a good question. Getting a bit more distance for a more cropped portrait is a good next move if that interests you more than going wider (and that is a little tricky on the M unless you want to use a secondary viewfinder or get good at estimating!). The Noctilux and both the 75s (Noctilux and Summilux) have very very thin depth of field wide open (and that's what you're paying for and having the bulk for). This is too thin for portraits, you'll get one eye in, the other out of focus, fuzzy noses etc. 

Could I suggest a much cheaper but more practical alternative? The (only available used) 90mm f2.9 Elmarit M is ideal both for subject distance, DOF at f2.8 and rendering. Also smaller and lighter. 90mm is a bit of a challenge on an M, but the 1.4 viewfinder magnifier helps.

If you're looking at 50mm still, how about the APO 50 Summicron F2? The rendering an 'pop' are sublime.... Its quite a different 'look' to the 35mm and no where close in my view.

My kit is a 24 Summilux, 35 Summilux, 50 APO Cron and 90 Elmarit.

Regards

Brendan

@newtoleica Thank you Brendan for your input on the challenge with these lens for cropped portraits. It is a different experience focusing on RF, and so I'm now thinking its worth getting a viewfinder too. Kind regards!

Edited February 5, 2021 by Rachelle
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[ropo54]

Rachelle:

Some less costly considerations?

1. Noctilux 0.95,  plus purchase a pre-owned Leica CL to give you the equivalent 75 1.4 perspective. (And, you have the viewfinder with the CL).

2. Instead of a Leica 75mm 1.4, consider the Leica R 80 1.4, the "twin sister" to the 75 1.4, and at 50% of the cost;

You might also consider adding the inexpensive close focus adapter should you purchase the Noctilux 50mm for some added fun.  Not sure how it will work with the M, as I use my  Noctilux with the SL and CL.

Regards,

Rob

Edited February 5, 2021 by ropo54

[Rachelle]

9 hours ago, ropo54 said:

Rachelle:

Some less costly considerations?

1. Noctilux 0.95,  plus purchase a pre-owned Leica CL to give you the equivalent 75 1.4 perspective. (And, you have the viewfinder with the CL).

2. Instead of a Leica 75mm 1.4, consider the Leica R 80 1.4, the "twin sister" to the 75 1.4, and at 50% of the cost;

You might also consider adding the inexpensive close focus adapter should you purchase the Noctilux 50mm for some added fun.  Not sure how it will work with the M, as I use my  Noctilux with the SL and CL.

Regards,

Rob

@ropo54 I already have a pre-owned M10 and committed to it, but glad there are adapters to expand options!  I looked into the 80/1.4 and find it difficult to find pre-owned particularly from a good Leica dealer in the U.S. (I'd like to support them during this difficult time). Thorsten Overgaard took an impressive photo of a man reading a book in a crowd with this lens - the kind of unconventional portraits I'd capture : ) 

[ropo54]

52 minutes ago, Rachelle said:

@ropo54 I already have a pre-owned M10 and committed to it, but glad there are adapters to expand options!  I looked into the 80/1.4 and find it difficult to find pre-owned particularly from a good Leica dealer in the U.S. (I'd like to support them during this difficult time). Thorsten Overgaard took an impressive photo of a man reading a book in a crowd with this lens - the kind of unconventional portraits I'd capture : ) 

Yes, Rachelle, I would think finding the R 80 1.4 might be a bit of a search, but you might put in a call/email to Josh@Leica Miami,  who's a terrific source for pre-owned Leica.  

Thorsten Overgaard's photo is outstanding!  

Good luck with your search.

Regards, Rob

[FrozenInTime]

Using a M10 with the EVF is not the most fluid of experiences ; on the SL2-S it's slightly better, but either was the process of zooming into get focus nailed really slows the picture taking process.

I've had no trouble hitting focus with the 50/0.95 Noctilux on the M RF , but missed many photos trying to EVF M lenses on the CL even with f/2 lennses.

Sicking to rangefinder coupled lenses on M camera would be my recommendation.

Edited February 6, 2021 by FrozenInTime

[Rachelle]

15 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Using a M10 with the EVF is not the most fluid of experiences ; on the SL2-S it's slightly better, but either was the process of zooming into get focus nailed really slows the picture taking process.

I've had no trouble hitting focus with the 50/0.95 Noctilux on the M RF , but missed many photos trying to EVF M lenses on the CL even with f/2 lennses.

Sicking to rangefinder coupled lenses on M camera would be my recommendation.

@FrozenInTime Thank you for noting your insights on the EVF. I've been getting mix reviews on the EVF - it's helpful, it's not helpful. I'm curious to know other people's experience using an EVF with a 75mm (that's likely the highest focal length I will get for the M10). 

[ocean2059]

I have both Noctilux-M 50/0.95 and Summilux-M 75/1.4. Based on that you are relatively new to M system, I would recommend that you consider the Summilux-M 75/1.4 first. It will pair with your Summilux-M 35/1.4 ASPH well and you still have a compact system. One additional advantage with the Summilux-M 75mm is its minimum focus distance (MDF), which is at 0.7m, whereas the Noctilux is at 1.0m (and I believe that the Noctilus-M 75 is at 0.85m).

In terms of EVF, I don't use it for both lenses unless I do some dedicated portraits and need to closely focus on the eyes. If you have good eyesight, I would strongly recommend that you practice how to focus reliably and accurate with M10's rangefinder. With regards to the image qualities, they are all very unique Leica masterpieces but have different attributes. I, personally, prefer the rendering of Summilux-M 75 and as a result use it more often than the Noctilux 50.0.95. Your personal taste and preference may be difference.  

Cheers,

 

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[evikne]

5 hours ago, Rachelle said:

I'm curious to know other people's experience using an EVF with a 75mm (that's likely the highest focal length I will get for the M10). 

I have tried my 75mm Summilux with M10 and a Visoflex. The EVF is useful for close-ups of stationary objects and I have time to place focus precisely. But for all ordinary use, I much prefer the rangefinder. It is much faster to use, and after I got my lens perfectly calibrated, I had no problem with nailing the focus time after time. I cannot imagine that the 75mm Noctilux is very much harder to use than the Summilux.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by evikne