Choosing another lens: Noctilux-M 50mm or 75mm?

[Rachelle]

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Hello! I'm looking for another lens to add with the Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH that I use with a M10. Disclosure: I'm a long-time learner of photography who is very new to using Leica.  I'm learning towards 75mm because it allows more distance for portraits and focusing on a particular subject.

I'm debating between the 50 Noctilux-M f/0.95 ASPH, the 75 Noctilux-M f1,25 ASPH, or the 75 Summilux-M f1,4 

Like many, I'm attempting to justify expending for Noctilux even at the used lens price. This is why I'm considering the 75 Summilux, but concern it may not come close to producing some of the brilliant qualities achieved by Noctilux lens. I'm factoring in also the time it will take to achieve 'the shot' and photo editing efforts.

My goal is to superbly master the use of my Leica equipment so that I can produce stunning work for special projects and possibly develop a secondary profession. In another post, it was said that Noctilux "...is a lens for specialists." How will you learn to be a specialist if you don't learn with the right tools built for what you want to specialise in? 

I plan to still continue shooting with my other equipment. Therefore I'm not concerned about other kinds of photography conditions/styles, need for shorter/longer lens, and the lens weight. 

I would greatly appreciate hearing your input on satisfaction, dissatisfaction, and/or compared experiences with the outcome of your photography work with any of those 3 lens I mentioned above. THANK YOU!

[jaeger]

I personally will not go over 50mm on M system especially if you shoot portraiture and wide open a lot.  The RF is just not accurate enough to handle 1 inch DOF -  you will miss many good images then you will close the aperture more and  more, it defeat the purpose of having Noct or 75 Lux.  Unless you shoot random objects instead of person but you wouldn't need Noct for that would you?

Borrow one from a friend (or even try it at Leica dealer) and you know what I mean, I ensure you will miss left/right eye focus 70% of time regardless how good your RF techniques are. 

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[SiggiGun]

Noctilux095 and 75lux are very special lenses for special use. I use them for wedding and the results are "as good as expected". Concerning, DOF at o. 95, yes it may be an issue. To have a better chance to have sharp results, LV or EVF or SL2 is recommended. 

Please find hereafter some exemples

https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/0704ce

https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/3G8PbA

PS: I have no experience with the 75nocti

 

 

[a.noctilux]

The best way choosing one of those is go trying out how it handles, balancing with M10, focussing ease or whatelse.

Other's Leica users opinions reflect only their own experiences.

I can give my experiences as lover of Noctilux 1.0, since decades.

1 - as happy user of 50mm Noctilux 1.0 nice and balancing well, not too big/heavy, I've tried out the 0.95/50 Noctilux to find out that was not for me

2 - I use the Summilux-M 75mm even before the 1/50 and this would be my choice, if only one 50/75 to choose from

( now it would be Summarit-M 2.5/75 for my present photography)

3 - tried in a shop when Leica presented the Noctilux 75mm some years ago, to find that the focussing with rangefinder of M10 + Noctilux 75 was not as good when use at

f/1.25 to f/1.7 or 2 and that lens is so big/heavy to use and to carry around that I didn't buy it

 

4 - Maybe this new 1.2/50 Noctilux-M asph.

Edited February 3, 2021 by a.noctilux

[wda]

It seems very strange to me that you choose a Noctilux to learn a new focal length. As others have said, it is a very specialized lens. A 75 mm Summarit would allow you to experience that focal length at a much reduced cost. It is also capable of producing equally spectacular results. Just search the forum for much evidence. I have the latter and love it and would never part with it. It is more manageable than a 90 mm lens, but that could wait for another day.

[tgray]

I’m probably at odds with a lot on this forum, but go get a 90 Summicron pre-ASPH for $1k and save yourself a bunch of cash. It will give similar DOF for portraits (you still get in focus eyes and fuzzy noses) and have similar problems with focusing accuracy. 
 

Seriously though, it’s a very nice lens that produces wonderful results for a fraction of the cost. There are certain advantages in choosing 75mm over 90mm - maybe pick up the Summarit or the Voigtlander 75/1.5?

[Boojay]

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Another option for a 75mm fast lens would be the Voigtlander 75mm 1.5.  Don't rule it out simply because it doesn't have a red dot, it's an excellent lens.  

I have a Summilux 75mm 1.4 and a Noctilux 50mm F/1, I use the 75mm CV more than both put together for everyday shooting situations.

[a.noctilux]

Second surprise for me.

My wife uses her Apo-Summicron-M 2/75 asph. so I'm jalous.

When I borrow her apo 75mm, I'm happy with the handling, ease of use and excellent results second to none.

opinions on 75mm

this thread for Summilux 75mm

 

[LocalHero1953]

Welcome to the forum!

I don't agree that going over 50mm on an M is necessarily inadvisable. I have not tried any of the three lenses you are considering, but I have had both the Apo-Summicron-M 75mm and 90mm, and had no problems focusing portraits with both, wide open. I can well understand that eyesight plays a part in focusing success, but only you can decide that. 

I would also be uncomfortable if I had nothing longer than 50mm for all my portraits - yes, 50mm can take great portraits, but the closer you get to your subject, the greater the perspective distortion (e.g. nose enlargement, massive leading shoulder, big hands in front of the face); for head and upper body I would always choose a 90, unless distortion is intended to play a part in the result.

I have never been tempted by the Noctiluxes, because I value small size and weight in a M lens. The number of times I would wish to go much wider than f/2 for a portrait is pretty small. I can understand the praise of the Summilux 75 over the Apo-Summicron for its different rendering, but the extra stop is of less value to me.

Edited February 3, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[giannis]

1 hour ago, Rachelle said:

I'm debating between the 50 Noctilux-M f/0.95 ASPH, the 75 Noctilux-M f1,25 ASPH, or the 75 Summilux-M f1,4 

 

Are you confident that you can tell them apart? Like in a mixed gallery with portraits and other photos shot with a combination of the above lenses, are you sure you can tell which is which more than half of the time? Experience shows most people can't really tell focal lengths apart unless it's a big difference, same for DoF unless it's >2 stops of difference. All the lenses you listed are very close in focal length and virtually indistinguishable in DoF.

My point is, if you can't tell them apart confidently looking at the photos - either because of the small difference or because you don't know what exactly to look for - then you should decide based on handling (size, weight, etc.) and price (also availability, second hand market, etc.).

For what it's worth, another vote for the 90mm Summicron as a portrait lens, as @tgray said. 90mm is a classic portrait length and adequately different from 50mm. Slightly off topic, I find that when building a reasonable kit, going roughly in multiples of 2 for focal lengths is the most efficient solution, like 25mm, 50mm, 90mm and so on. This provides the most range and versatility with the least number of lenses. Having multiple lenses very close to each other leads to mental fatigue and indecision what lens to pick for a shot, what to pack for a trip etc. etc. . On top of the increased bulk and cost of your kit.

[Rachelle]

7 hours ago, wda said:

It seems very strange to me that you choose a Noctilux to learn a new focal length. As others have said, it is a very specialized lens. A 75 mm Summarit would allow you to experience that focal length at a much reduced cost. It is also capable of producing equally spectacular results. Just search the forum for much evidence. I have the latter and love it and would never part with it. It is more manageable than a 90 mm lens, but that could wait for another day.

The reviews and seeing the amazing photos shot on the 75mm Noctilux made it so alluring to me. I was impressed with the Noctilux's performance in low light, its ability to isolate the subject from its background or window reflection, and the 3-D effect. Again, this is my observation from photos in the reviews. I know that the different lens have its own strengths, and the Noctilux appeared to have a variety of strengths packaged into one lens. 

I appreciate all the comments which is helping me re-thinking about how essential and feasible these qualities are for someone like me who is just getting acquainted with Leica (photography is not how I pay the bills). So thank you for giving me important input that I can learn from.  

Side note - I first learnt photography on 35 and 75 focal lengths with an SLR, and was able to produce some nice portraits, nature and travel photos. So that's why I favoured those two lengths to start learning with on the M10. 

[evikne]

If money, size and weight doesn't matter, I am sure the 75mm Noctilux could be a wonderful companion to your 35mm Summilux ASPH!

[leicameech]

I don't own either, but the 75 Nocti the better lens of the two optically (sharper, less chromatic abberation, even sharper when stopped down, very flare-resistant). It can also focus closer (0.8m) vs the 50 f/0.95 Nocti (1m). If that's important to you, then note that 0.8m with the longer focal length is pretty cool. The 0.95 Nocti is also a modern M lens, and most of the things that make the 75 "better" are still qualities that the 0.95 lens has. It's sharp, flare resistant, impressive when stopped down. Just not as impressive as the 75. They're two different focal lengths though, so I suppose that's a factor. When photographing people, all of the things that make a lens great optically are of lesser importance than how the pictures look. If buying a new lens and breaking down what the $$ is getting you, when looking at the techy performance of the three Noctilux lenses, the 50 1.2 is likely to be coming in 3rd place, with the 0.95 in 2nd, and the 75 in first. If considering a 90, then you may as well throw in the 90 f/1.5 at a bit less than the 75 Noctilux and a bit more than the 50 f/0.95 Noctilux. Optically, I'd consider it ~tied with the 75 Nocti. 

They are definitely BIG lenses. I wouldn't get one for an M, but would love one on my SL2. 75 APO, 90 APO, or some of the Voigtlander offerings (which I continue to hear great things about, but have never tried) would definitely handle nicely. The three Noctili (not counting the 1.2) block the viewfinder quite a bit!

[Narsuitus]

11 hours ago, Rachelle said:

I'm debating between the 50 Noctilux-M f/0.95 ASPH, the 75 Noctilux-M f1,25 ASPH, or the 75 Summilux-M f1,4 

With my Nikon 35mm SLR, I shoot with 35mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.4.

With my APS-C Fuji digital mirrorless, I shoot with 23mm f/1.4 and 56mm f/1.2.

With my Leica M6 35mm rangefinder, I shoot with 35mm f/1.4 and 90mm f/2.

If I were considering replacing my 90mm f/2 with the 50 Noctilux-M f/0.95 ASPH, the 75 Noctilux-M f1,25 ASPH, or the 75 Summilux-M f1,4 , I would pick one of the 75mm lenses because the 50 is too close to the 35mm for my taste. Of the two 75mm lenses, I would pick the Summilux because of the lower price.

[JCR33]

I got the 75 Noctilux last year and like it a lot. Optically it is better than the 50 1.0 V4 I have, however it is heavy and bulkier than the 50 Noct V4. 

 

All images are using 75 Noctilux

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by JCR33

[Rachelle]

2 hours ago, Narsuitus said:

With my Nikon 35mm SLR, I shoot with 35mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.4.

With my APS-C Fuji digital mirrorless, I shoot with 23mm f/1.4 and 56mm f/1.2.

With my Leica M6 35mm rangefinder, I shoot with 35mm f/1.4 and 90mm f/2.

If I were considering replacing my 90mm f/2 with the 50 Noctilux-M f/0.95 ASPH, the 75 Noctilux-M f1,25 ASPH, or the 75 Summilux-M f1,4 , I would pick one of the 75mm lenses because the 50 is too close to the 35mm for my taste. Of the two 75mm lenses, I would pick the Summilux because of the lower price.

@Narsuitus I agree with the 50 being too close to 35. I had my moment of  "I can save a bit more $ with this Noctilux". I've read some comments that the Summilux can give both a nice soft look (wide open) and sharpness (stopped down). So its nice to have that versatility with the subjects I shoot. 

[Rachelle]

13 hours ago, SiggiGun said:

Noctilux095 and 75lux are very special lenses for special use. I use them for wedding and the results are "as good as expected". Concerning, DOF at o. 95, yes it may be an issue. To have a better chance to have sharp results, LV or EVF or SL2 is recommended. 

Please find hereafter some exemples

https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/0704ce

https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/3G8PbA

PS: I have no experience with the 75nocti

@SiggiGun Stunning work on both of your lenses. Does the 50 Noctilux appear to produce more dynamic colours than your 75 Summilux under similar light conditions?

[darylgo]

The noctilux' have their advantages and disadvantages.  They're versatile and can shoot in any light, the 50 has the soft wide open look and sharp closed down, the 75 will render crisply at all apertures and I often reduce clarity in post to soften it while retaining detail.  Physically they're both big lenses and the leica m is a small body.  While the 50 can be handled with little difficulty the 75 will require greater effort, the m has very little area to grip and avoiding fingers touching rangefinder windows is near impossible.  Focusing can be overcome with a few techniques, shoot multiple images, move slightly with each image, or if you're old like everyone here hold steady and let your shaky hands do the work.  When you hit perfect focus the image will sparkle, when missed it will often times be acceptable.  With such large lenses you might want a smaller lens also in the same focal length to shoot more casually.  There's much more to lenses than can be written here, both esthetically and technically.   

[me111]

If you shoot color, especially jpeg, I would skip the 0.95 because it tends to produce purple color around the highlight. I used to own it and like it, but both ASPH Noctiluxes are too heavy for Leica M, imo.

You might feel the same after the itch for Noctilux alleviates; many people have gone through this symptom, so if you're like me, (I sold my kidney to buy it) I would suggest you buy a used copy.

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[SiggiGun]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Rachelle:

@SiggiGun Stunning work on both of your lenses. Does the 50 Noctilux appear to produce more dynamic colours than your 75 Summilux under similar light conditions?

@Rachelle First Thank you for your comment. To anwser your question. YES, it think so, the contrast is higher in general, but it depends really on the light conditions. The noctilux colors are cleary "warmer" then the with the Lux or with other Leica Lenses.