Guest Nowhereman Posted February 2, 2021 Share #21 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) This thread makes no sense to me. Like Jaap, I have no desire to post SOOC images. Also, I see this as impractical for anyone shooting into the light or with strong side light because, with a camera like the M10, you need to underexpose by at least ⅔rds of a stop to protect highlights under these conditions, and in tropical light sometimes as much as 2 stops. There is no interest in seeing SOOC images shot in these conditions. And shooting into the light is often the most interesting thing to do: Larry Clark used advise to "shoot into the light", which he meant literally as well as figuratively. ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Edited February 2, 2021 by Nowhereman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 Hi Guest Nowhereman, Take a look here Leica Rangefinder Photographs editing. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bill_murray Posted February 2, 2021 Share #22 Posted February 2, 2021 Are there limits to the ISO values used to post in this thread? Film was pretty well limited to 400 ISO ... it is sensor technology that allows ISO upto say 25,600 ... is photographing at such high ISO values not defeating the concept of photographic fidelity you are chasing? Isn’t the act of creating a jpg from a raw file an act of manipulation dependent on the application used to create the jpg? What smoothing, denoising, demosaicing and colour fidelity and other technology is inherently applied in the act of exporting? 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 2, 2021 Share #23 Posted February 2, 2021 If you are showing a jpg straight from the camera, presumably you have the saturation and sharpening etc switched off, otherwise you are not starting with a “straight” image. You should be starting with the dng, to which your processing program has not applied any automatic adjustments in import, including lens corrections etc. It is very difficult to record a completely unprocessed image file. (Bill’s post above arrived as I was drafting this one) 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted February 2, 2021 Share #24 Posted February 2, 2021 7 hours ago, MikeMyers said: I do shoot in raw, but those images are too large to post here It's not a problem. Just export your worked on RAW image under the max size allowed here (which is bigger for subscribing members) as a jpg and post. Scanned negs can start as TIFF's, but can be processed and exported same way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25 Posted February 2, 2021 Perhaps for images on film the rule applied by FADU (Film & Darkroom User forum) should be applied in that images uploaded to their gallery had to be from actual darkroom prints - no scans of negs permitted! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #26 Posted February 2, 2021 11 hours ago, RayD28 said: I always thought it would be good to have a Constructive Criticism thread or maybe a sub-forum . IMHO the challenge is evaluating composition. It's easy to know what is included in the photo, what was excluded is the challenge. Regarding PP, how do you handle film photos? What is the SOOC benchmark? Or is the intent strictly for digital. And if digital, would this be something for the Digital Post Processing Forum? As long as you're shooting with a rangefinder, feel free to do all of that right here. What is "PP", and a SOOC benchmark? The intent in this thread is ANY photo from a Leica Rangefinder, especially including film. Anybody and everybody is welcome to send me feedback on any photos I post here, just as we do in the DxO PhotoLab forum. That's a great way to learn. Here are two images, SOOC and PP. What was done in processing was to correct the angle of the image because I didn't hold the camera properly, and to bring out the areas that were underexposed. Also, I added my watermark. I also cropped off the top of the image, as it was just wasted space. By tilting the easel in printing a negative, and "dodge and burn" I could have done this in my darkroom. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317587-leica-rangefinder-photographs-editing/?do=findComment&comment=4131752'>More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #27 Posted February 2, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 11 hours ago, Nowhereman said: This thread makes no sense to me. Like Jaap, I have no desire to post SOOC images. Also, I see this as impractical for anyone shooting into the light or with strong side light because, with a camera like the M10, you need to underexpose by at least ⅔rds of a stop to protect highlights under these conditions, and in tropical light sometimes as much as 2 stops. There is no interest in seeing SOOC images shot in these conditions. And shooting into the light is often the most interesting thing to do: Larry Clark used advise to "shoot into the light", which he meant literally as well as figuratively. This is exactly the reason why it's a good idea. I would see what you had done under those conditions, and learn from your ability to to correct for them. Your post is exactly how you would be showing/teaching others (like me) who didn't know any of your suggestions until now. The concept won't make sense to you, as you already are very talented. The idea is to show others how you dealt with those problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #28 Posted February 2, 2021 4 hours ago, pedaes said: It's not a problem. Just export your worked on RAW image under the max size allowed here (which is bigger for subscribing members) as a jpg and post. Scanned negs can start as TIFF's, but can be processed and exported same way. In PhotoLab 4, I set the export size to 1.5 megs, and got the size error. I exported them again at 1 meg size, and it worked. How do I subscribe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #29 Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Keith (M) said: Perhaps for images on film the rule applied by FADU (Film & Darkroom User forum) should be applied in that images uploaded to their gallery had to be from actual darkroom prints - no scans of negs permitted! That could be a suggestion, but why make it a rule? I have an M3, developing tanks, and a scanner. I have no plans, and no space, to set up a darkroom for printing, and for that matter, I don't get personal prints made any more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #30 Posted February 2, 2021 6 hours ago, bill_murray said: Are there limits to the ISO values used to post in this thread? Film was pretty well limited to 400 ISO ... it is sensor technology that allows ISO upto say 25,600 ... is photographing at such high ISO values not defeating the concept of photographic fidelity you are chasing? Isn’t the act of creating a jpg from a raw file an act of manipulation dependent on the application used to create the jpg? What smoothing, denoising, demosaicing and colour fidelity and other technology is inherently applied in the act of exporting? No ISO rules. This thread is about how to process images. The only "rules" I noted had to do with composing images. Shoot at ISO 10, 10,000, or 100,000. The comparison is between your original image, and what you do to it. No problems with smoothing, denoising, or color correction. Shoot in daylight, tungsten, or stage lighting. The comparison is between what your camera recorded, and what you did to it in processing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #31 Posted February 2, 2021 6 hours ago, andybarton said: If you are showing a jpg straight from the camera, presumably you have the saturation and sharpening etc switched off, otherwise you are not starting with a “straight” image. You should be starting with the dng, to which your processing program has not applied any automatic adjustments in import, including lens corrections etc. It is very difficult to record a completely unprocessed image file. Doesn't matter. Use whatever settings you want on the camera. The result may not be a "straight image", but it will still be an image "straight from the camera". The negative, or file on your memory card is the starting point. This thread is only about what you do AFTER that starting point. Use an 8x10 view camera or a $50 camera phone, or anything in-between. The image it captures will be SOOC. I think it was already noted that any built-in editing tools in the device need to be avoided, OR you need to capture an image from the device BEFORE you did any editing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 2, 2021 Share #32 Posted February 2, 2021 But, setting Sharpness, Saturation and Contrast in-camera is, in itself, built-in editing. You are are changing the way that the image produced looks. These adjustments only affect the jpg image. The DNG file will be adjusted when imported into Lightroom, or other image editing program, unless you switch everything off. You will also need to switch off lens coding in the camera, to prevent lens adjustments being made automatically. By the way, the two images you have shown above, are two completely different shots. If you are going to go down this route, and make a proper comparison, you need to show the same shot "out of camera" as you call it, then processed. I am happy to share a shot of mine, both as the jpg file and the processed one if you like. but I am not sure it proves very much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 2, 2021 Share #33 Posted February 2, 2021 Here is one from walking the dog from our place, this last weekend. Grey, cold, cloudy. This is the jpg as it sits in LR. I have done nothing to this, but LR may have done on import. I am not going to fiddle around with settings and prefs now. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And this is the shot after I have played around with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And this is the shot after I have played around with it. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317587-leica-rangefinder-photographs-editing/?do=findComment&comment=4131804'>More sharing options...
tamas Posted February 2, 2021 Share #34 Posted February 2, 2021 Ok, My offering to what possibly could be an interesting and instructive post. M9 135mm lens + Lightroom ver: 3 This, one of numerous shots of seagulls over lake, none of which I was happy with as all were out of focus and none were particularly well composed ( as per this one). However, in this one shot the group of birds caught in a circle with the centre bird looking towards me caught my attention, and I tried to salvage the shot best I could in PP . I did various adjustments: Highlights, brightness reduction, recovery, sharpening ( kitchen sink and all) and cropped down to show just the area of interest to me. Not perfect, but I quite like it for its quirkiness. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317587-leica-rangefinder-photographs-editing/?do=findComment&comment=4131815'>More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 2, 2021 Share #35 Posted February 2, 2021 Here are two more. First one is the DNG as it was imported into LR. This obviously has no jpg processing in camera and was the starting point for the one below. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Second one, a duplicate of THE SAME FILE, post processing. I prefer the second, so much so that I have a meter wide print on my living room wall. But, what does this prove? Processing your work makes it look better? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Second one, a duplicate of THE SAME FILE, post processing. I prefer the second, so much so that I have a meter wide print on my living room wall. But, what does this prove? Processing your work makes it look better? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317587-leica-rangefinder-photographs-editing/?do=findComment&comment=4131818'>More sharing options...
pedaes Posted February 2, 2021 Share #36 Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, MikeMyers said: How do I subscribe? Start with the 'Premium' tag in the Header at the top of every page. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #37 Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, andybarton said: By the way, the two images you have shown above, are two completely different shots. If you are going to go down this route, and make a proper comparison, you need to show the same shot "out of camera" as you call it, then processed. Yeah, I screwed up. I should have checked the file number for 2246. Too many files, too little attention. 2244 was setting up the shot, before waiting for someone to walk into it. My goof. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317587-leica-rangefinder-photographs-editing/?do=findComment&comment=4131955'>More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #38 Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, andybarton said: I am happy to share a shot of mine, both as the jpg file and the processed one if you like. but I am not sure it proves very much. Maybe this whole thread was a bad idea, or maybe I'm just more confused than usual. The thread wasn't intended to be about proving anything. I thought it would help people (like me) understand better how to get the most out of our Leica cameras. It's fine with me if one of the administrators wants to close the thread completely, and I'll write it off as a useless suggestion. I've already been learning and understanding new (to me) things better from this thread, and I have just started to read today's posts. If it's worthwhile, let it continue. If it's a waste of time, any administrator can close it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 2, 2021 Share #39 Posted February 2, 2021 Sorry. I’m not sure what you wanted from this. I thought that this was it. Did you want a step by step guide of how to get from A to B? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMyers Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share #40 Posted February 2, 2021 No, I was just going through your two images, looking for/at what you changed, and why, and thinking about what I would have done, maybe differently, and in what ways did your did your methods change the ways I used to do things, and likely how they might affect what I do in the future. My eyes are goofy. I'm "blind" to my own mistakes. I think stuff I do looks good, only to realize later on how poorly I did. I've struggled to do this with my own images, but I don't notice obvious mistakes until I ignore them for a while, and come back to them with a fresh mind. Oh, and you have such a BEAUTIFUL country to live in!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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