What M lens is missing - what lens should Leica invent soon?

[lct]

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10 hours ago, sutlore said:

50/2 summicron ASPH

A 50/2 asph with no apo capabilities and no floating elements with the same size as the 50/2 v5 or preferably v4 would interest me if it has less flare, less CA and less field curvature than v4/v5 but i don't hold my breath as it would probably cannibalize the 50/2 apo.

[SiggiGun]

Again, every lens is build with his own design specifications and constraints. As a result, every lens is the best lens with this limitations. A good example is the comparison between a 35 M ans à 35 SL Cron. Or take a newly built 1.2 Noctilux and the 0.95. Etc. That means not the lens is the question, the user and what he wants do with the lens. 

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[darkinners]

On 2/9/2021 at 3:45 PM, Al Brown said:

There are claims the 35 FLE is the sharpest 35mm in the world, although the newest Sony FE 35 1.4GM seems to beat it, according to the web pixel peepers.

35 FLE is not even the sharpest 35mm on release, if you account for the size though, it truly the best design 35 1.4 lens out there. 

[Dennis]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:06 PM, jacktaka said:

The sharpest 35s available are not even from Leica: the Zeiss 35/1.4 and 35/2.8

indeed

On 2/9/2021 at 12:45 AM, Al Brown said:

There are claims the 35 FLE is the sharpest 35mm in the world, although the newest Sony FE 35 1.4GM seems to beat it, according to the web pixel peepers.

For what I've seen, the Zeiss is sharpest than FLE. And the Sony maybe even more, but with more digital rendering, it could me too much

 

 

[Jk1002]

I think what I miss the most is shorter focus range. Getting from 3 or  2 feet down to 1 would probably do the most to my photography even though I would need to focus with liveview when wide open. 28-35-50 with 50 being my highest priority.

If the would do a 1 feet 50 Summilux 1.4 that would be it for me and I feel that might be coming ....

[SiggiGun]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb darkinners:

35 FLE is not even the sharpest 35mm on release, if you account for the size though, it truly the best design 35 1.4 lens out there. 

That is the point. You're right. Everything should be considered in the context : design contraints typically size and usage. Sharpness? In near field and/or infinite etc. Exemple some ELCAN lenses was designed for military applications = high contrast 

[darkinners]

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1 hour ago, SiggiGun said:

That is the point. You're right. Everything should be considered in the context : design contraints typically size and usage. Sharpness? In near field and/or infinite etc. Exemple some ELCAN lenses was designed for military applications = high contrast 

I absolutely agree and horses for courses,  there are a lot of design constraints,

I constantly see people compare the Nikon 58mm 0.95 and Noctilux 50 0.95

Yes, the Nikon one is sharper and overall better corrected with optical aberrations but then, please look at the size difference as well. That monstrous lens would completely block the viewfinder of the Leica M. 

 

[Gerbs]

On 2/1/2021 at 12:13 AM, Erato said:

New arena -- 
50mm to 65mm MACRO lens.

 

I would say 40mm to 60mm Macro lens. I have been using my old Olympus OM1 50mm macro with an adapter a lot, and also the 90mm Macro-Elmar. There's definitely room for a macro 50 in the Leica lineup, and with Live View a true 50mm macro lens would be eminently welcome. It would be very interesting to see what the character of a wide open f2 macro lens designed by Leica would be like... a challenge for sure! Also an opportunity to recognize that the Leica M series is MORE than a rangefinder.

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Gerbs said:

[...] It would be very interesting to see what the character of a wide open f2 macro lens designed by Leica would be like... a challenge for sure! Also an opportunity to recognize that the Leica M series is MORE than a rangefinder.

What kind of picture would you envisage at such a fast aperture? Just curious given the shallow DoF there. 

[Gerbs]

12 minutes ago, lct said:

What kind of picture would you envisage at such a fast aperture? Just curious given the shallow DoF there. 

What I like about having the Olympus Macro on my camera is that it works for a carrying-around lens, but still allows me to get up really close at random moments. I'm assuming that a Leica macro lens would be designed with macro quality as the first priority, but that wouldn't mean that it couldn't be used for portrait work, for example, and I'd love to see those results! So I'm somewhat envisioning the f2 as a benefit for "normal" use. With whatever compromises, distortions, or bokeh result from macro optimization.

[Al Brown]

Now that both 24s are discontinued I wonder if we will be getting a 24 summicron?

[Al Brown]

Back to the topic, my only missing Leica lens to be invented (sic) right now (which would probably be an instant hit with many users regardless of the price) is a new, modern Summilux 35 the size of the pre-ASPH (or old Cron 35 II/Cron 40 C) with "no glow" modern performance wide open. We would have the old 35 lux for all fans of that look, the new FLE for the fans of clinical Karbe performance that do not mind the size and this "intermediate" new potential 35 lux as a do-it-all option that ticks all the standard Leica boxes (small, light, portable, luminous, good performance to the edges wide open) becoming the "ultimate Leica lens"*.

*(According to some research here, 35mm is the most desired focal length for a huge amount of Leica M users and a sole lens for many)

Edited December 28, 2021 by Al Brown

[evikne]

Peter Karbe has stated that their next goal is to make smaller lenses. I'm very excited about how much smaller they can be made. The 35 and 50 mm Summilux are the two lenses they should start with.

[robb]

I think they are missing shift lenses.  I don’t need the tilting, just shifting for architecture.  A 24mm would be great.  Even if slower aperture.  I get the more limited market but if it was compact but still large movement, then maybe would replace need for regular 24.

Robb

[Guest]

13 hours ago, evikne said:

Peter Karbe has stated that their next goal is to make smaller lenses. I'm very excited about how much smaller they can be made. The 35 and 50 mm Summilux are the two lenses they should start with.

Yet he has spent his leica career making bigger lenses?

[adan]

Because he does not yet actually have the technology (5th generation, after Classic, APO, ASPH, FLE) to make them smaller.

Karbe stated it as an aspirational goal, once a sufficiently-advanced technology (which Arthur C. Clarke once described as "indistinguishable from magic" ) is more developed.

The 35 APO-Summicron-M ASPH, as compared to the 35 APO-Summicron-SL ASPH (size vs. IQ), may point the way to the future. As may the 50mm APO-Summicron-M compared to the SL equivalent. First baby steps.

[Herr Barnack]

On 2/3/2021 at 8:43 AM, strohscw said:

I am dreaming of an Apo Summicron 28mm.

I would expect a 28mm to be the next APO Summicron to be released. 

May God have mercy on our savings accounts. 😳

[Jeff S]

36 minutes ago, adan said:

Because he does not yet actually have the technology (5th generation, after Classic, APO, ASPH, FLE) to make them smaller.

Karbe stated it as an aspirational goal, once a sufficiently-advanced technology (which Arthur C. Clarke once described as "indistinguishable from magic" ) is more developed.

The 35 APO-Summicron-M ASPH, as compared to the 35 APO-Summicron-SL ASPH (size vs. IQ), may point the way to the future. As may the 50mm APO-Summicron-M compared to the SL equivalent. First baby steps.

Indeed.

Karbe could have reduced the size of some lenses, to a degree, but he had other priorities. He could, for instance, have made the SL35 APO Summicron somewhat smaller (not nearly M size), but opted instead to use the same barrel size (and some shared components) as the other SL Summicrons to create economies of scale and to better facilitate production.  

Of course the addition of AF (and OIS in two of the zooms) added significantly to size and weight, given current technology, but so did the choice to expand the typical focal length range (24-90 vs 28-90). I would have preferred a more narrow focal length range in the longer SL zooms to reduce size and weight, but here the priority was to expand the range, likely in part for marketing and competitive distinction.

With the M range, marketing likely also played a role in the release of the extremely fast new lenses such as the M 75 Noctilux and M 90 Summilux, both of which set an M standard, but almost seem more at home on the SL system.  

So, yes, technology is key to more radical size reduction, but unless the future tech is truly magic, some of his other goals/priorities will also require some change.

Jeff

[lct]

I may be wrong but i have sometimes the feeling that Leica's forgotten the way to make compact lenses as it used to do in the past. I wanted compact 35/2 and 35/1.4 M lenses for my CL and the only ones i found, besides my old Leica's, were made by Cosina...

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[evikne]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

I may be wrong but i have sometimes the feeling that Leica's forgotten the way to make compact lenses as it used to do in the past. I wanted compact 35/2 and 35/1.4 M lenses for my CL and the only ones i found, besides my old Leica's, were made by Cosina...

Probably because "good enough" is not good enough for Leica anymore. Competitors and customers are pushing from all sides, demanding ever more perfect lenses. Unfortunately, this has not been possible without increasing the size, at least until now.