What M lens is missing - what lens should Leica invent soon?

[a.noctilux]

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I appreciate the Anastigmat 3.5/50mm of my "0 Replica" which I managed (taken from the "0" ) to mount on digital M once,

just to see how it would work on sensors.

Very good lens but I hadn't compared to my other Elmar 5cm/50mm of different periods.

No coupling and not standard screw mount, so liveview and exotic adaptors so I didn't follow the experimentation.

 

I'd like if possible that Leica offer this Anastigmat/Elmar/Tessar type in coupled LTM or M mount,

I think that lens would be called Anastigmat but not really matter for me (four or five elements Leica would know) as the results would be stellar.

[derleicaman]

On 1/31/2021 at 1:15 PM, jaapv said:

Leica should bring back the Summilux 24 and the WATE, both unique lenses, but apparently not viable economically

WATE is discontinued? Big mistake if so. My favorite travel lens

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[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, derleicaman said:

WATE is discontinued? Big mistake if so. My favorite travel lens

I’ve seen no such statement.  And it’s listed in stock at many of the usual suspects.

Jeff

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

I think that the Zeiss Tessar which is similar in design to the 4 element Leitz, F 3.5, Elmar: Goes back to 1898.

By the way, a relatively modern version of the 4 element design that we are all writing about here can be found in the 100mm, F 4, Elmar for the Leicaflex. Like many Elmars/Tessars: It is sharpest in the more or less central 1/3 of the image, at an F stop somewhere around F8 or F 11.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Mark T]

On 2/1/2021 at 9:40 AM, Herr Barnack said:

Regarding prices, the 75 Summicron APO sells for $4395 USD.  The 90 Sumicron APO sells for $5095 USD and the 75 Noctilux ASPH sells for $14,095 USD.

Given the above, Leica could release an updated 75mm Summilux and price it at $7000(ish), sell plenty of them and not erode sales of the 75 'cron, the 90 'cron or the hideously costly 75 Noctilux.

JMHO. 

I'm not sure they sell many 75 mm lenses as it is to justify a third of only slight differentiation to the current. I guess a "Heritage reissue" of the old Summilux might work but that lens is not really that old either. However, this is all flights of fancy anyway, so please indulge 🙂

[Mark T]

On 2/3/2021 at 6:09 AM, steve 1959 said:

It strikes me that leica strategy going forward will be to make very expensive APO lenses and very expensive copies of old fashioned popular ones for the M lens range.

Voigtlander simply had better or equal faster alternatives to the summarit range of lenses so leica have conceded that sphere to them.

The clear gap in the leica lens list is the budget line of lenses but how do leica tackle that issue?

I think it comes down to the brand. I don't think Leica is interested in selling anything budget. I guess their profit margins lie in the expensive lenses and projecting an image of exclusivity. To be fair, present company excepted, Leica consumers have reinforced this strategy. How many threads can you find with stuff like "I'm new to Leica and have just bought the 50 mm APO and the 75 mm Noctilux. I'm looking for a wide angle lens to go with them. Is the 28 mm Summilux good enough?"

How do you even begin to reply to D$%^heads like that?

[Mark T]

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On 2/3/2021 at 11:57 PM, farnz said:

An interesting definition of "APO".  I suspect that Leica's marketing team might be interested in using it. 

Pete.

And it shows the marketing works. Even amongst a user base enthusiastic enough to go on a forum...

[SiggiGun]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Mark T:

I think it comes down to the brand. I don't think Leica is interested in selling anything budget. I guess their profit margins lie in the expensive lenses and projecting an image of exclusivity. To be fair, present company excepted, Leica consumers have reinforced this strategy. How many threads can you find with stuff like "I'm new to Leica and have just bought the 50 mm APO and the 75 mm Noctilux. I'm looking for a wide angle lens to go with them. Is the 28 mm Summilux good enough?"

How do you even begin to reply to D$%^heads like that?

I agree!

If someone ask for "low budget" lenses, he should understand that low budget means low cost. And Leica as an European Manufactor is not able to compete with lost cost contries in Asia or elsewhere. Yes, It is correct also that, if you have high volume, you are able to optimize your production cost. This is not the case of LEICA. Due to the "high end" strategy, LEICA is still on the market. Today, if someone wants "low budget" products, compatible with LEICA, cameras, the market is open now. If you take a look on the 2 hand market, the Leica value ist still in the optics and not in the electronics. 

[Chuck]

On 1/31/2021 at 3:57 PM, colint544 said:

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Edited February 5, 2021 by Chuck
Question I had planned to ask has already been answered. I'm not sure how to delete

[otto.f]

On 1/31/2021 at 8:13 PM, Al Brown said:

75mm f1.4 Summilux

Now that you mention it. In the sideline of producing new flagships as Noctilux 75, Leica started a nostalgic line with Summaron 28 and Thambar 90, which I cannot understand as commercially feasible in comparison to giving up the whole Summarit line and other interesting lenses. But a reissue of the Summilux 75 without touching the design would probably be a success. Could well be impossible today because of certain glass with radio-active material, don ‘t know exact, but it would be worth a try. I wouldn’t buy it though because I own the best copy possible, and this counts for a new Summaron 35 too, perfectly happy with my my old one now. 

[pgk]

On 1/31/2021 at 9:57 PM, colint544 said:

I'm interested to see what the rumoured re-issue of the 35 Summaron 2.8 will be like. Small lenses make the Leica M handle so nicely.

Did the 35mm Summarit not fill the role of the Semmaron well? I had one for a time and regret selling it but I was looking for a faster lens rather than a better one.

[wizard]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb SiggiGun:

The Elmar is a Tessar style design...

As far as I know, the Elmar has the aperture blades positioned between the first and second lens element, whereas in the Tessar the aperture blades are located centrally, i.e. between the second lens element and the rear cemented lens group. But it is true that apart from those minor differences, the Elmar and Tessar design closely resemble each other.

Edited February 5, 2021 by wizard

[pgk]

34 minutes ago, wizard said:

As far as I know, the Elmar has the aperture blades positioned between the first and second lens element, whereas in the Tessar the aperture blades are located centrally, i.e. between the second lens element and the rear cemented lens group. But it is true that apart from those minor differences, the Elmar and Tessar design closely resemble each other.

I have a suspicion the aperture placement can have significant effects on the image. Perhaps someone with good optical knowledge can elaborate?

[colint544]

46 minutes ago, pgk said:

Did the 35mm Summarit not fill the role of the Semmaron well? I had one for a time and regret selling it but I was looking for a faster lens rather than a better one.

That's a very good point. I guess it was a modern version of a Summaron, and I suppose, if it was still in production, there would be less point of a retro copy of the Summaron.

Rumours still persist of a new 'retro' inspired Summaron in the works. They've done a retro 28, 50, and 90 so far, and 35 does seem to be a glaring gap in their heritage line.

[pgk]

12 minutes ago, colint544 said:

Rumours still persist of a new 'retro' inspired Summaron in the works. They've done a retro 28, 50, and 90 so far, and 35 does seem to be a glaring gap in their heritage line.

I would have thought that the 'classic' retro 35mm would be the pre-aspheric Summilux though. I suppose we will just have to wait and see what Leica has decided will sell.

[UliWer]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb pgk:

I have a suspicion the aperture placement can have significant effects on the image. Perhaps someone with good optical knowledge can elaborate?

Not so much optical knowledge, just practical experience by trying the 1:3.5/50mm Tessar for the old Contax with adapter on a digital M: The Elmar shows slightly more resolution in the center, the Tessar is slightly better in the corners. Both ways you would not see any significant difference in the results if you staid away from very close pixel peeping. 

[colint544]

22 minutes ago, pgk said:

I would have thought that the 'classic' retro 35mm would be the pre-aspheric Summilux though. I suppose we will just have to wait and see what Leica has decided will sell.

That would be an interesting one, alright. I've heard it described as 'two lenses in one' by enthusiastic owners - dreamy and imperfect wide open, sharp from 2.8 down.

[pgk]

20 minutes ago, colint544 said:

That would be an interesting one, alright. I've heard it described as 'two lenses in one' by enthusiastic owners - dreamy and imperfect wide open, sharp from 2.8 down.

I would be amongst them. Its a split personality lens alright. It should be a lens that can be rebuilt as a retro version today too, although its performance cannot apparently be bettered even with modern glass if Leica keep to the original double-Gaussian type design. Used prices have gone up a lot since I bought mine so a retro might be good timing.

[RayD28]

On 2/2/2021 at 3:38 PM, BradS said:

I honestly do not know. Labor in Japan is far from cheap and Leica surely have the same modern production equipment and methods available to them so...??? 
 

It does seem safe to assume that Leica were not able to produce the summarit at a profit that corporate management thought necessary and sufficient. 
 

but that begs the question...why? 
 

why can’t they make an excellent, compact, reasonably priced normal lens? 

Perhaps the Summarit line was too good.

 

On 2/2/2021 at 5:50 PM, farnz said:

Leica might have no interest in that market sector in which case it ceases to be an issue.

Pete.

I think Pete is spot on.  I'm a rookie to Leica but some or most consumer goods companies use an inferior entry level line to lure consumers to a brand but upsell to higher quality lines.  The problem was the Summarit line was good enough that people did not buy up.  

Finally, for nearly all companies the higher the price, the higher the profit per unit.  We educate our employees how 10 units of product Y can equal the same profit as seven units of product X, the breakeven point, and they should focus on product X.  We've discontinued high volume products and forced buyers to slightly lower volume products.  The decision mainly rest on brand loyalty.  Most of the time the strategy works.  The key is meeting or exceeding the breakeven point.  When it doesn't we later reverse the decision or re-offer the discontinued product at a slightly higher price and emphasize it's a for a limited time only.

Apologies to those that deal with these concepts all the time and my comments are rudimentary.   

 

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[feelssadman]

More budget-friendly and compact Elmar/Elmarit lenses ranging from f2,8 to even f4. The latter is perfectly acceptable for me.

Edited February 5, 2021 by feelssadman