What M lens is missing - what lens should Leica invent soon?

[Al Brown]

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10 minutes ago, BradS said:

Well, except that they apparently tried and failed....which is more like, can’t. 

It is pointless to deduct simplified conclusions. After almost 100 years in the lens manufacturing business, I am 110% positive Leica *CAN* do it all. Meaningless to quote Summarits as an example. So many variables to consider here... Brand image, collectors, shareholders, tradition and legacy, competition to name but a few...

[Guest]

It strikes me that leica strategy going forward will be to make very expensive APO lenses and very expensive copies of old fashioned popular ones for the M lens range.

Voigtlander simply had better or equal faster alternatives to the summarit range of lenses so leica have conceded that sphere to them.

The clear gap in the leica lens list is the budget line of lenses but how do leica tackle that issue?

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[lct]

44 minutes ago, BradS said:

Which also implies that Leica cannot...which seems very unlikely to me but maybe you know why they cannot compete? 

I'm no armchair CEO but i would not like to become what Zeiss did if i were Leica.

[farnz]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

The clear gap in the leica lens list is the budget line of lenses but how do leica tackle that issue?

Leica might have no interest in that market sector in which case it ceases to be an issue.

Pete.

[BradS]

1 hour ago, lct said:

I'm no armchair CEO but i would not like to become what Zeiss did if i were Leica.

I guess that we’re all lucky that Wetzlar is far enough West that Leica did not suffer the same fate that Zeiss did. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by BradS

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, farnz said:

Leica might have no interest in that market sector in which case it ceases to be an issue.

Pete.

Except the summarit line clearly shows they had an interest.

Maybe because that failed they no longer have that interest anymore which is just fine if it works for leica.

[BradS]

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2 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

It strikes me that leica strategy going forward will be to make very expensive APO lenses and very expensive copies of old fashioned popular ones for the M lens range.

Voigtlander simply had better or equal faster alternatives to the summarit range of lenses so leica have conceded that sphere to them.

The clear gap in the leica lens list is the budget line of lenses but how do leica tackle that issue?

Yes, it does appear that Leica have abandoned, conceded as you say, the vast market of ordinary users in favor of super wealthy collectors and fashionistas. 
 

It still makes no sense to me. 

[BradS]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

It is pointless to deduct simplified conclusions. After almost 100 years in the lens manufacturing business, I am 110% positive Leica *CAN* do it all. Meaningless to quote Summarits as an example. So many variables to consider here... Brand image, collectors, shareholders, tradition and legacy, competition to name but a few...

Sorry. I think we got off in the weeds. Please forgive me and let me try again. The OP asks what is missing. To me, lenses like the recently discontinued 35mm and 50mm Summarit are missing. Specifically, we’re missing compact lenses with excellent optics at something less than breathtakingly high prices. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by BradS

[lct]

6 minutes ago, BradS said:

Specificity, we’re missing compact lenses with excellent optics at something less than breathtakingly high prices. 

Don't count me in please. When i need excellent affordable lenses i find them easily on the s/h market or with ZM or VM glass. I buy Leica when i want the very best or my favourite character lens in the smaller package and i'm ready to pay what is due for that.

[BradS]

27 minutes ago, lct said:

....When i need excellent affordable lenses i find them easily on the s/h market or with ZM or VM glass.....

Yes, we all do because Leica don’t fill that need. That is my point. So I guess, we agree on what Leica are missing.   

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by BradS

[Guest]

Voigtlander have a nice system that works well for them.

They bring out good quality attractive lenses like the 21mm f1.4 or the new 50mm f2 apo in the relatively mass produced sony mount and 6 months later introduce the proven design to the leica m mount.

Maybe its impossible for leica to compete with that?

[lct]

5 minutes ago, BradS said:

So we agree on what Leica are missing.   

I don't sorry. As far as M lenses are concerned, Leica isn't missing anything significant to me. I wouldn't say so about bodies but this is another story. YMMV.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

I don't sorry. As far as M lenses are concerned, Leica isn't missing anything significant to me. I wouldn't say so about bodies but this is another story. YMMV.

No tessar type in the current leica lens range is there?

[lct]

1 minute ago, steve 1959 said:

No tessar type in the current leica lens range is there?

Haha you have a point

[Casey Jefferson]

Um...Bring back the 35mm AA Summilux? 

[SiggiGun]

I am waiting for a Bi-Elmarit-M f2.8/28-70mm ASHP. or "if to big" a B-Elmar-M f3.8/28-70mm.

And in general ASPH. is OK for modern correction and rendering but non FLE lenses, the focus hub is too short to make it easy to fixe the right distance (without EVF): a good example is the Apo-Summicron-M f2.0/75mm ASPH. compared to the Summilux-M f1.4/75mm or the Apo-Summicron-M f2.0/90mm ASPH. Booth are much more easy to focus.

And finally, will see what the "rumored"  Apo-Summicron-M f2.0/35mm ASPH. will be (hopefully without FLE). I prefer for exceptional short distance images to take the EVF but not for regular use....

[farnz]

9 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

Except the summarit line clearly shows they had an interest.

Maybe because that failed they no longer have that interest anymore which is just fine if it works for leica.

I doubt that we'll ever know why Leica discontinued the Summarit line. It might have become uneconomic but it could alternatively be that the line doesn't fit anymore with where Leica wants to take its brand.  To say that the line has "failed" without knowing for certain is just presumptuous.

Pete.

[pgk]

9 hours ago, BradS said:

Sorry. I think we got off in the weeds. Please forgive me and let me try again. The OP asks what is missing. To me, lenses like the recently discontinued 35mm and 50mm Summarit are missing. Specifically, we’re missing compact lenses with excellent optics at something less than breathtakingly high prices. 

How do you justify very high priced superlative lenses if you make equally good (albeit slower) optics at far lower prices? You may (and possibly Leica did) end up stealing sales from your more profitable lines. I've had 35 and 50 Summarits and have used the 75 - all had excellent optics.

Edited February 3, 2021 by pgk

[Keith (M)]

"What lens is missing?"  A 35mm f1.2 that can focus down to 0.5m (via EVF) ?  One that is quite lightweight and relatively compact (for f1.2) ?  One that does not suffer from focus-shift? One that does not cost an arm, leg and kidney?  My VM 35mm Nokton III Aspherical fits the bill.  Not exactly cheap at £1100 but worthy of every penny performance-wise.

 

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[Dr No]

I would be very disappointed if the 24 Summilux doesn't see an update and is lost forever, one I had earmarked to buy at some point.

So many new lenses are enormous. I appreciate 'slow' and compact lenses with very high IQ. With that in mind here are some that I would like:

- A new Elmarit line to replace the defunct Summarits - 24, 35, 50, 90 to go with the existing 28.
- 21, 24, 28, 35 Summicons that match the APO 50 for quality. (I believe a 35mm APO is imminent)

I very much like the suggestion here of a 28/50 Bi-Summicron if it were at all possible.

I also see a great benefit in the WATE, MATE and similar sort of zooms so any updates, developments or new additions with this in mind would be very welcomed. A 35/50/75 would be very useful to me.

It's such a shame the 28/35/50/75 was too expensive to materialise I would see that as a very desirable and greatly useful lens.

A 35mm Noctilux would be a good seller I think.
 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Dr No