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Apo Summicron-sl 28


Daniel C.1975
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2 hours ago, hofo100 said:

...same here - in a series of approx 200+ shots with the SL summicrons 50 and 90SL all at f2 iAF/AF-s was about 98% right - here are 2 examples:

I don't know about eye aF, but I know that only and SL camera coupled with an SL lens can produce such a pop effect. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

As the excitement today is all in the M lens threads where there is a new APO 35 Summicron to first leak via pictures and then compare.  Steven in those threads has one of the new M 35 and his first impression is that the it  puts the SL 35 (Peter Karbe's "best lens ever brought to market " as of a year ago) to shame.  I'll leave that comparison for him to prove.  I'm learning things about my new SL APO 28 Summicron.  Such as how well does it do very close up, and how strong is the barrel distortion that is corrected in software.  And does that actually matter, since it is the designer's choice to correct it that way.

So I set up a test target to be shot at the closest distance for which I could get autofocus to succeed.  This was 7.5 cm from the end of the lens hood, 10 cm away from the end of the lens otself.  This is so close that even lighting is hard to achieve, so the test target is on my editing display:

U1050779 1 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr 

If I turn the distortion correction off, and trim the resulting pixels to the original dimensions, the distortion is apparent, but I don't really see any gain in resolution or sharpness:

U1050779 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

So is there any problem with the edges of the image when shooting wide open and ludicrously close?  A stray line or two on the HTF charts suggests there might be a problem but here's a 100% crop

U1050779 2 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

I don't see any problem, but when I compare with the same area shot at f/8, there is a definite increase in contrast

U1050783 2 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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Just now, scott kirkpatrick said:

As the excitement today is all in the M lens threads where there is a new APO 35 Summicron to first leak via pictures and then compare.  Stephen in those threads has one of the new M 35 and his first impression is that the it  puts the SL 35 (Peter Karbe's "best lens ever brought to market " as of a year ago) to shame.  I'll leave that comparison for him to prove.  I'm learning things about my new SL APO 28 Summicron.  Such as how well does it do very close up, and how strong is the barrel distortion that is corrected in software.  And does that actually matter, since it is the designer's choice to correct it that way.

So I set up a test target to be shot at the closest distance for which I could get autofocus to succeed.  This was 7.5 cm from the end of the lens hood, 10 cm away from the end of the lens otself.  This so close that even lighting is hard to achieve, so the test target is on my editing display:

U1050779 1 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr 

If I turn the distortion correction off, and trim the resulting pixels to the original dimensions, the distortion is apparent, but I don't really see any gain in resolution or sharpness:

U1050779 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

So is there any problem with the edges of the image when shooting wide open and ludicrously close?  A stray line or two on the HTF charts suggests there might be a problem but here's a 100% crop

U1050779 2 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

I don't see any problem, but when I compare with the same area shot at f/8, there is a slight increase in contrast

U1050783 2 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

Great post. 
Just to clarify something I’ve clarified there too: 

it doesn’t put it to shame. Not at all. 
i meant that the new M  has nothing to envy on the SL, besides charts, in my opinion. 
The M wows me more than the SL, which wowed me a lot. 
cheers ! 

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2 hours ago, Steven said:

Great post. 
Just to clarify something I’ve clarified there too: 

it doesn’t put it to shame. Not at all. 
i meant that the new M  has nothing to envy on the SL, besides charts, in my opinion. 
The M wows me more than the SL, which wowed me a lot. 
cheers ! 

You said in that thread the M lens is “(far) superior” to the SL lens and that “I assure you it surpasses the SL equivalent.” Later you said you simply meant it wows you more, and not that it’s better optically. You’re beginning to sound like a certain internet reviewer (SH)!

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2 hours ago, LD_50 said:

You said in that thread the M lens is “(far) superior” to the SL lens and that “I assure you it surpasses the SL equivalent.” Later you said you simply meant it wows you more, and not that it’s better optically. You’re beginning to sound like a certain internet reviewer (SH)!

Ha ! You make it sound like I said something and retracted myself, which is not what happened. I said I thought I outperformed the SL version by far, and I still do. Except that when I realised that everyone thought I meant optically or technically and started posted a bunch of charts that I dont understand, I specified or clarified that I dont measure a lens performance with number, but rather with real world and experience. 

To me, the M outperforms the SL in the way it draws. As a product, its more impressive too. The SL comes with an awful and noisy AF, while the M has a revolutionary new MFD. I am more impressed by the M. What I look for with Leica and especially with an APO 35 is the way my subject is going to pop out. So far, I am more impressed in that regard than with the SL (which I love too !). 

As far as the reviewer is concerned, I dont know who is SH. What I know is that I am nothing of a reviewer. I am a hobbyist photographer, and I am before anything a user. Nothing is given to me for review. This week, I spent 37k of my own money in lenses. Because I can, because I want, and because I enjoy. I have been cultivating this hobby for 15 years, and I always loved sharing my experiences or hearing other's story. Not going to stop no. Hope you like it. If you dont .... 🤷🏽

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13 hours ago, Steven said:

Ha ! You make it sound like I said something and retracted myself, which is not what happened. I said I thought I outperformed the SL version by far, and I still do. Except that when I realised that everyone thought I meant optically or technically and started posted a bunch of charts that I dont understand, I specified or clarified that I dont measure a lens performance with number, but rather with real world and experience. 

To me, the M outperforms the SL in the way it draws. As a product, its more impressive too. The SL comes with an awful and noisy AF, while the M has a revolutionary new MFD. I am more impressed by the M. What I look for with Leica and especially with an APO 35 is the way my subject is going to pop out. So far, I am more impressed in that regard than with the SL (which I love too !). 

As far as the reviewer is concerned, I dont know who is SH. What I know is that I am nothing of a reviewer. I am a hobbyist photographer, and I am before anything a user. Nothing is given to me for review. This week, I spent 37k of my own money in lenses. Because I can, because I want, and because I enjoy. I have been cultivating this hobby for 15 years, and I always loved sharing my experiences or hearing other's story. Not going to stop no. Hope you like it. If you dont .... 🤷🏽

I like your comments, especially about M10R. It was very beneficial cause it prevented me to spend 8k euro money on a camera that is not optimal for my work.

As I commented in another thread:

I was also surprised by this comment.

More so because SL Cron is bigger ... but at the same time also cheaper. Who knows. 

@Steven Based on your Leica purchases in last months did they offer you any discount? 🙂 Are you approaching Leica endorsment?

Excuse me for being a little paranoic but today forums and internet is full of hidden advertising... and your Leica purchases in last months as well as some "new" forum members posting photos and comments after the release of APO Lanthar makes me suspicios that LUF is not immune to such type of marketing... from both sides, Leica and Voigtlander.

 

Internet is full of hidden marketing so... Yes, I understand you @LD_50

@Steven I was thinking you are a professional photographer or visual artist. Maybe with more presentation/posted photos/... you can prove you are not a marketing guru, like it seems now 😅 Can you share with us how you can fly abroad and spend such amount of money on Leica when usual European citizen shall stay at home and pray? 😅 Are you a pilot? This is the only possible explanation...😁

I hope you understand, that posting these questions I just want to help you get some transparency and proof you are not a marketing troll. You must understand your trip abroad and spending during Covid times rises suspicios concerns by common LUF users (at least Europeans living in lockdown).

 

 

For example I was so upset by newbies posting favorable comments related to APO Lanthar that I don't want to hear about this lens anymore. AND I will not buy it any soon!🙂

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Cobram said:

I like your comments, especially about M10R. It was very beneficial cause it prevented me to spend 8k euro money on a camera that is not optimal for my work.

As I commented in another thread:

I was also surprised by this comment.

More so because SL Cron is bigger ... but at the same time also cheaper. Who knows. 

@Steven Based on your Leica purchases in last months did they offer you any discount? 🙂 Are you approaching Leica endorsment?

Excuse me for being a little paranoic but today forums and internet is full of hidden advertising... and your Leica purchases in last months as well as some "new" forum members posting photos and comments after the release of APO Lanthar makes me suspicios that LUF is not immune to such type of marketing... from both sides, Leica and Voigtlander.

 

Internet is full of hidden marketing so... Yes, I understand you @LD_50

@Steven I was thinking you are a professional photographer or visual artist. Maybe with more presentation/posted photos/... you can prove you are not a marketing guru, like it seems now 😅 Can you share with us how you can fly abroad and spend such amount of money on Leica when usual European citizen shall stay at home and pray? 😅 Are you a pilot? This is the only possible explanation...😁

I hope you understand, that posting these questions I just want to help you get some transparency and proof you are not a marketing troll. You must understand your trip abroad and spending during Covid times rises suspicios concerns by common LUF users (at least Europeans living in lockdown).

 

 

For example I was so upset by newbies posting favorable comments related to APO Lanthar that I don't want to hear about this lens anymore. AND I will not buy it any soon!🙂

 

 

Funny post, I did not expect that ! 

I am not paid or endorse by Leica. They make me pay for everything I buy, full price. The only advantage I get after buying so much stuff is that I am now on their high profile client list, and they call me to know if I want to reserve rare objects. Actually, while I'm talking about this, they just called me to offer me a black Noctilux brand new. They have only one left right now in France. I dont shoot 50s so I will turn it down. This is how I sometimes know about new products in advance too. 

Photography is not my job, I work in investments. It's just my passion. I love cinema and photography, so I invest in cinema, and make photos. You can check my instagram and see that I have been taking photos for about 15 years (I am 33). 

As for how I travelled from Paris to Bogota, my wife is Colombian, so we went three weeks to colombia to bring my kids to the in laws, because Happy wife, happy life. 

One last point regarding being a Leica marketer: don't forget that there are some Leica products I bought and I hated, and said it out loud. As you mentioned yourself, it was the case for the M10R, but also the SL2, the 35 Cron and the 35 FLE. Another point, most of my purchases are towards the used market. Not very profitable for Leica who wants to push their new products. And one more thing, I have also declared my love for some sony camera throughout various threads, in which I posted multiple side by side photos proving the Sonys were more capable cameras than Leicas. Oh, and if that's not enough, I also s***t all day on their AF system in the SL, which I hate so much. It's the worst. 

Unless I did all this on purpose, as part of an elaborate marketing scam ???!!! 😜

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15 minutes ago, Steven said:

Funny post, I did not expect that ! 

I am not paid or endorse by Leica. They make me pay for everything I buy, full price. The only advantage I get after buying so much stuff is that I am now on their high profile client list, and they call me to know if I want to reserve rare objects. Actually, while I'm talking about this, they just called me to offer me a black Noctilux brand new. They have only one left right now in France. I dont shoot 50s so I will turn it down. This is how I sometimes know about new products in advance too. 

Photography is not my job, I work in investments. It's just my passion. I love cinema and photography, so I invest in cinema, and make photos. You can check my instagram and see that I have been taking photos for about 15 years (I am 33). 

As for how I travelled from Paris to Bogota, my wife is Colombian, so we went three weeks to colombia to bring my kids to the in laws, because Happy wife, happy life. 

One last point regarding being a Leica marketer: don't forget that there are some Leica products I bought and I hated, and said it out loud. As you mentioned yourself, it was the case for the M10R, but also the SL2, the 35 Cron and the 35 FLE. Another point, most of my purchases are towards the used market. Not very profitable for Leica who wants to push their new products. And one more thing, I have also declared my love for some sony camera throughout various threads, in which I posted multiple side by side photos proving the Sonys were more capable cameras than Leicas. Oh, and if that's not enough, I also s***t all day on their AF system in the SL, which I hate so much. It's the worst. 

Unless I did all this on purpose, as part of an elaborate marketing scam ???!!! 😜

Thank you my friend for this comment. It is very clarifying. As you know I was favorable about your comments in the past when you was explaining about Leica AF issues, M10R issues etc. in the meantime many other Leica aficionados were almost insulting you cause you were expressing the truth.

Happy wife, happy life 😅 Very true.

I feel prevelaged my wife sometimes even encourages me to spend my money on stuff I like (Leica and Fender).

So she can buy without shame new purses or other women stuff🤣

 

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A question has arisen in the lucky guys-with-new-M 35 APO-Summcrons thread.  Jono showed one picture in his article in which a pair of bright sun rays (sun shining through a tree) had colored patches in it.  A picture close in style in his APO SL Summicron 28 article did not have these interesting artifacts.  So is it a feature of the M35 only por can it be achieved with other new many surfaces lenses.  Here's my best try to reproduce on my new APO SL 28:

U1050834 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

No Newton's Rings lurking inside my SL-SC, as far as I can see.  Has anyone else seen it? 

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1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

A question has arisen in the lucky guys-with-new-M 35 APO-Summcrons thread.  Jono showed one picture in his article in which a pair of bright sun rays (sun shining through a tree) had colored patches in it.  A picture close in style in his APO SL Summicron 28 article did not have these interesting artifacts.  So is it a feature of the M35 only por can it be achieved with other new many surfaces lenses.  Here's my best try to reproduce on my new APO SL 28:

U1050834 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

No Newton's Rings lurking inside my SL-SC, as far as I can see.  Has anyone else seen it? 

How does the 28 compare to the 35 over-all in terms of resolution and field curvature? If you have the 16-35, I'd be curious how the 28 APO SC compares at equivalent FL and aperture?

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On 3/4/2021 at 1:55 PM, Steven said:

Ha ! You make it sound like I said something and retracted myself, which is not what happened. I said I thought I outperformed the SL version by far, and I still do. Except that when I realised that everyone thought I meant optically or technically and started posted a bunch of charts that I dont understand, I specified or clarified that I dont measure a lens performance with number, but rather with real world and experience. 

To me, the M outperforms the SL in the way it draws. As a product, its more impressive too. The SL comes with an awful and noisy AF, while the M has a revolutionary new MFD. I am more impressed by the M. What I look for with Leica and especially with an APO 35 is the way my subject is going to pop out. So far, I am more impressed in that regard than with the SL (which I love too !). 

As far as the reviewer is concerned, I dont know who is SH. What I know is that I am nothing of a reviewer. I am a hobbyist photographer, and I am before anything a user. Nothing is given to me for review. This week, I spent 37k of my own money in lenses. Because I can, because I want, and because I enjoy. I have been cultivating this hobby for 15 years, and I always loved sharing my experiences or hearing other's story. Not going to stop no. Hope you like it. If you dont .... 🤷🏽

Just to clarify are you comparing the two being used on an SL camera or the M lens on an M camera and the SL lens on an SL camera. 

 

If this has been addressed excuse me for the asking. 

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2 hours ago, Priaptor said:

Just to clarify are you comparing the two being used on an SL camera or the M lens on an M camera and the SL lens on an SL camera. 

 

If this has been addressed excuse me for the asking. 

Good question.While I am using the lens on both bodies, when I compare it to the SL35, its with the M lens also mounted on an SL2x. When on the same body, they seem to equal each other. If one is better, it might be the M! To my eyes. In my subjective opinion.

I shall add that in the future, this lens might spend 90% of it's time on my SL2S, where it excels, and has the advantage to look even more compact. 

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4 minutes ago, Steven said:

Good question.While I am using the lens on both bodies, when I compare it to the SL35, its with the M lens also mounted on an SL2x. When on the same body, they seem to equal each other. If one is better, it might be the M! To my eyes. In my subjective opinion.

I shall add that in the future, this lens might spend 90% of it's time on my SL2S, where it excels, and has the advantage to look even more compact. 

Appreciate your help. I was about to push the button on the APO SL until I saw read about the APO M release. I would love to mate this lens with my SL2 to have a more compact, albeit without autofocus, camera for those days I want a more compact camera. 

I look forward to your further impressions. 

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Peppers, salts and honey-corn flakes -- a more palatable closeup test of the SL APO 28

First at f/4

U1050900 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

Then at f/22 (still no problems or even losses to diffraction).  DOF now extends to about 10 cm:

U1050904 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

and a multi-shot taken at f/8, which is probably the sweet spot for this lens used close.

U1050905 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr (click through)

In all of these, focus was on the writing at the top of the blue bottle of Red Sea coarse salt, which (in case you don't read Hebrew) we are told the gentleman has been gathering since 1922.

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OK, just the cornflake, which are probably printed at 320 dpi.  With the camera positioned so that full frame was filled by the 20 cm width of the box:

U1050911 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr multishot at f/8 (click through)

Here's how the center looks in a 100% crop of the multishot at f/2.0

U1050915 copy by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr (click through for 100%)

The f/2 shot loses resolution in the corners, but at f/8, the corners are resolved

U1050911 copy by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr
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Stimulated by the various demonstrations of the new M APO 35 at its close focus of 30 cm, I've added a roughly 30 cm example at f/2 with the SL APO 28.

U1060004 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr (click through or download the 100% rendering)

Focus is on the eyes.  Compared with the three Disney figurines, I think the OOF elements are a bit less blurred.  Which may be an effect of focal length (28 has more DOF than 35 mm), or it may be that the M design is more blurry.  Anyway, another piece of data to chew on.

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3 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Stimulated by the various demonstrations of the new M APO 35 at its close focus of 30 cm, I've added a roughly 30 cm example at f/2 with the SL APO 28.

U1060004 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr (click through or download the 100% rendering)

Focus is on the eyes.  Compared with the three Disney figurines, I think the OOF elements are a bit less blurred.  Which may be an effect of focal length (28 has more DOF than 35 mm), or it may be that the M design is more blurry.  Anyway, another piece of data to chew on.

Theres a pretty massive DOF difference between 35 and 28mm that's for sure. 

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