Panoramic Mode / Feature Request

[Johnny D]

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I've owned my Q2 for about 8 months and for the most part I have ignored the zoom features because I don't like throwing away data... However, I've also been looking at panoramic options in either digital or 35mm or conversions and I am finding that none of the solutions would really be an ideal option either because of cost (Xpan) or camera (sd quattro H), or lack of portability, or lack of quality... None of the options seem appealing to me.

What would be appealing  to me is to see a Panoramic zoom option built into the Q2.  Am I the only one?  It seems like the functionality is already there, it would just be about adding another option.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Johnny D

[andybarton]

The merge to panorama function in Lightroom works extremely well, in my experience.

The only cameras I have ever seen with this function built in have been consumer cameras, and the output was jpg only. Not ideal.

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[Johnny D]

Q2 Has an option to shoot panorama, but it works like an iPhone where you move the camera to catch the scene.  I'm hoping for framelines so that I can catch a more active scene and actually see what I am capturing in camera, versus in post.

[adan]

2 hours ago, andybarton said:

The merge to panorama function in Lightroom works extremely well, in my experience.

The only cameras I have ever seen with this function built in have been consumer cameras, and the output was jpg only. Not ideal.

Let's be sure we are talking about the same things.

There is the "sweep-panorama" method, where the camera is moved during exposure, with a frantic number of rapid exposures made, and then stitched together in the camera to make a jpeg.

(iPhone, other cameras, Q2 - and sort of on film, such cameras as the Widelux or Noblex, where the lens itself "sweeps across" the scene)

There is also the "crop-panorama" method, such as used in the custom S2 Leica made for Josef Koudelka (and also simulated in APS film cameras, or created using 35mm film in a Mamiya 6 MF (Multi-Format) or a Hassy/Fuji XPan)

https://petapixel.com/2015/06/04/leica-crafted-a-one-of-a-kind-panoramic-s2-for-josef-koudelka/

The entire sensor output is captured - but the .DNG metadata simply contains an instruction to import the picture with a crop already applied. Which can always be removed in the .DNG post-processing cropping controls - or retained (the film equivalents are, of course, not as "un-doable" ).

I think the OP is pointing out that the Q2 already does this, to crop for "35/50/75mm" fields of view. Turn off the cropping in post-processing a .DNG, and the full 28mm image is still there.

So why not add other "cropping instructions in metadata" (as well as in the viewfinder), for other shapes? Panorama (3:1), or square, or 4:5, or HDTV (16:9).

As wih the "35/50/75" crops, one would lose some final resolution (a 3:1 pan crop of a Q2 .DNG would be 8368 x 2890, or 24.2 Mpixels). But that would be no worse than cropping the picture in post - and one could see what one is getting in the EVF at the moment of exposure. Either as "framelines" or as a black "letter-box" mask.

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Heck, the same small firmware add could apply to the Q2Mono as well - then everyone could play "Josef Koudelka!"

And the "crop" could even be shifted up and down with the rear controller buttons (<^v>), creating a "shift-panoramic" camera for architecture.

Edited January 26, 2021 by adan

[Johnny D]

Andy, that is exactly what I meant with this request. 

With your mention of the custom camera made for Josef Koudelka, this would indicate that this would not be a deviation of tradition, which I know (and appreciate) is a value held by Leica. 

Also, from a sales perspective, the resurgence of demand for the Xpan could be redirected to the Leica Q2.  I know it's not film, but it also reduces the risk of buying a camera that could break and "become a brick" at any time.

The way I envision this is there being a menu item with a checkbox selection for crop framelines to choose from.  By default, maybe the panorama options aren't chosen so the user is not overloaded with options when they are just trying to get to the 75mm crop for a portrait, but then when they switch into a landscape/panoramic mode of operation, they check the boxes that will facilitate this.

[PhotoCruiser]

For special aspect ratio photos i use the crop function of Lightroom; in the right, top box you can either choose a usual crop factor or define your own.
Then you have DNG files without overloading the cameras menu und screen with icons and less processing power is needed, less battery it consumes.
Chris

[jaapv]

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Much better to crop in postprocessing as one can judge the framing at leisure. 

[andybarton]

On 1/26/2021 at 7:26 PM, Johnny D said:

the resurgence of demand for the Xpan could be redirected to the Leica Q2

With very high pixel counts in small cameras these days, the need for an X-Pan solution to panoramic shots has disappeared. There is no point in making a double-width sensor, in a purpose built body and purpose built lenses, when you can just crop in post-processing and still have pixels galore.

[Johnny D]

This would work just as the current frame-lines for the zoom feature works.  I’m just asking to add the option of using additional frame lines.  

And just to be clear here for those that haven’t used the zoom feature, you don’t lose the pixels outside of that frame.  
 

The whole point from my perspective is the intent.  Instead of having to guess what my panorama would look like, I could actually frame it specifically for that purpose.  And if it’s implemented with the option to use it or not, it shouldn’t bother anyone who isn’t interested in using the feature.  There are a lot of us that would.

[nwphil]

KISS - the Q line is not as simplified as the M, but why make it more complicated/menu and sub-menus loaded?

I rather do it in PP but EFV grids do help a lot and it's a set and forget thing. It's more of a camera to be handheld than a tripod queen, accounting for the base plate.

Have that feature in other camera, and actually I don't like the system choices - If you move up or down next frame a bit, ends cropping too much overall, hence, being way more flexible in post.

I understand your point, but I rather see Leica use their fixing some bugs and improve the app

Edited January 28, 2021 by nwphil

[Johnny D]

7 minutes ago, nwphil said:

KISS - the Q line is not as simplified as the M, but why make it more complicated/menu and sub-menus loaded?

I rather do it in PP but EFV grids do help a lot and it's a set and forget thing. It's more of a camera to be handheld than a tripod queen, accounting for the base plate.

Have that feature in other camera, and actually I don't like the system choices - If you move up or down next frame a bit, ends cropping too much overall, hence, being way more flexible in post.

I understand your point, but I rather see Leica use their fixing some bus and improve the app

I second wanting to see improvements in the app. The beauty of this request is that programmically, this shouldn’t take more than a day of development.  Honestly, it would probably only take one person an hour to add this feature because it’s not creating it from scratch, it’s just adding an option.

I get not wanting to add more complications to the UI, but realistically, it would be something that you enable once and then you never have to go into that menu again.

What I love about the electronic zoom on the Q is that it really is just a guide.  It will precrop when you bring into lightroom but if you want to adjust, the whole frame is there so that pp flexibility is still there.

 

[Johnny D]

6 hours ago, andybarton said:

With very high pixel counts in small cameras these days, the need for an X-Pan solution to panoramic shots has disappeared. There is no point in making a double-width sensor, in a purpose built body and purpose built lenses, when you can just crop in post-processing and still have pixels galore.

 

6 hours ago, andybarton said:

With very high pixel counts in small cameras these days, the need for an X-Pan solution to panoramic shots has disappeared. There is no point in making a double-width sensor, in a purpose built body and purpose built lenses, when you can just crop in post-processing and still have pixels galore.

 

6 hours ago, andybarton said:

With very high pixel counts in small cameras these days, the need for an X-Pan solution to panoramic shots has disappeared. There is no point in making a double-width sensor, in a purpose built body and purpose built lenses, when you can just crop in post-processing and still have pixels galore.

I get it Andy.  There isn’t a “need”.  However, I would argue that a rising number of people, myself included, enjoy using film.  I’m not asking for a double width sensor.  I’m not even really asking for a new feature.  I’m merely asking for an additional option to an existing feature.

[andybarton]

I can't see any reason why an EVF camera couldn't have various ratio panoramic farmelines in the firmware, linked to a simlar crop of the sensor.

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb andybarton:

I can't see any reason why an EVF camera couldn't have various ratio panoramic farmelines in the firmware, linked to a simlar crop of the sensor.

The only reason i see to not implemet this feature is to keep menu and options less confusing.
There are already a lot of uestions about settings of our cameras because first the Leica manuals are not too simple to understand and a lot of people don't even read it ...
Here we can find zillions of requests for changes and new features, some reasonable, others less.
Adding more software features would make using the camera more complicated and less fast to use as before any shot the settings may have to be adjusted.
In this case it would need a menu option to set the various ascepct ratios and the possibility to link them to the zoom lines button.
Should be not too complicated to engineer, but then we need to toggle thru several other aspect ratios before we can go back to full frame crop rate.
Not a too big hassle too as long someone don't switch frequently thru the zoom levels and need fast response, then the added aspect ratios can become a PITA.

Leica cameras are not known for being "egg-laying, milk-bearing woolly sow" or in correct english "can-do-everything" cameras,
rather for puristic top notch quality cameras without too much gimmicks and in case of their "Reporter" cameras for speed and ease of use.

Chris

 

 

 

[andybarton]

I never said it was a good idea 😊

[Johnny D]

5 minutes ago, PhotoCruiser said:

The only reason i see to not implemet this feature is to keep menu and options less confusing.
There are already a lot of uestions about settings of our cameras because first the Leica manuals are not too simple to understand and a lot of people don't even read it ...
Here we can find zillions of requests for changes and new features, some reasonable, others less.
Adding more software features would make using the camera more complicated and less fast to use as before any shot the settings may have to be adjusted.
In this case it would need a menu option to set the various ascepct ratios and the possibility to link them to the zoom lines button.
Should be not too complicated to engineer, but then we need to toggle thru several other aspect ratios before we can go back to full frame crop rate.
Not a too big hassle too as long someone don't switch frequently thru the zoom levels and need fast response, then the added aspect ratios can become a PITA.

Leica cameras are not known for being "egg-laying, milk-bearing woolly sow" or in correct english "can-do-everything" cameras,
rather for puristic top notch quality cameras without too much gimmicks and in case of their "Reporter" cameras for speed and ease of use.

Chris

 

 

 

Chris,

I think you are spot on.  I see an elegant solution though. There is already a digital zoom menu item that lets you set the digital zoom from the menu instead of the button.  All it would need is checkboxes to enable, and 1 or two pano framing options.   So no added menu bloat.

I don’t believe the pano “zoom” frame lines are a gimick but if anything would be construed as a gimick, it would probably be the digital zoom feature itself.  I see it more as a compositional aid, rather than a “zoom”.  But compositional aid probably doesn’t work well from a marketing perspective.

[jaapv]

11 minutes ago, Johnny D said:

if anything would be construed as a gimick, it would probably be the digital zoom feature itself.  I see it more as a compositional aid, rather than a “zoom”.

Agree!

[Francisco Proner]

Hi! Just created an account to coment on this topic. I've been looking for a solution for a digital Xpan using the leica Q2 and I think I found it, at least for my use. When using the 50mm crop mode the short side of the framelines in the center of the viewfinder is practically the same as the height of the 2.4X6.5 (xpan) aspect ratio. So, to compose the panoramic image, just use the 50mm crop mode and enlarge the sides in Lightroom later. The Q2's 28mm lens also comes close to the xpan's 45mm aesthetic. I felt really stupid having the q2 for over 2 years and only realizing it now, so I decided to share.  I hope it helps.

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[NigelG]

Well Leica have done this before…on the M!

(But you had to buy the ASC edition to get the firmware for viewing different cinema frameline ratios in the EVF…)

I would always want framelines to see the composition - cf. JK’s special S2 - when shooting rather than cropping to ratio in post processing.

Your solution seems very workable as a halfway house.

Edited August 16, 2022 by NigelG

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[PeterGA]

Seeing what you are composing through the viewfinder is totally different to manufacturing a crop after the fact - one of the reasons I use a GFX with its in built XPan aspect ratio. I see no reason why Leica cant do the same with any EVF camera - the SL2 already allows for B&W viewing as well as a 3:1 ratio ( amongst others)