Q2 or Q2 monochrom

[Casakleinhuis]

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Still, i would love to buy it in the US: it's 600€ cheaper than in The Netherlands

[acg69]

On 1/26/2021 at 2:52 PM, T25UFO said:

This one sentence (well, I suppose it's two sentences!) perfectly sums up the difference between conversion and dedicated B&W image.

Of course, cost is always a consideration, but if you mostly convert to B&W then I would definitely go for the Q2M.  The only downside is that you will be bitten by the Q camera bug, with the almost inevitable consequence that a regular Q2 will follow!

I understand what you are both saying, but I beg to differ. Remember that the initial optical stimulus (the bench, or the sick person) is in color. Whether you shoot with the Q2 or Q2M, a "conversion" is in the cards anyway; in one case from the eye to the camera and in the other from the camera to post processing. It is a mindset more than anything else, in my view anyway. I do appreciate however that technically the Q2M will produce high IQ in B&Q images for all sorts of technical reasons explained elsewhere. But the soul of the image is in the eye and intention of the photographer, not the instrument / tool. Just my 2 cents:)

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[robgo2]

I have both the Q2 and Q2M.  Both are great at what they do, but there is no question in my mind that the images from the Q2M are qualitatively different/superior to converted B&Ws from the Q2.  Since the OP says that he converts almost all of his color images to B&W in post-processing, the choice seems obvious:  Get the Monochrom.

[nwphil]

12 hours ago, acg69 said:

I understand what you are both saying, but I beg to differ. Remember that the initial optical stimulus (the bench, or the sick person) is in color. Whether you shoot with the Q2 or Q2M, a "conversion" is in the cards anyway; in one case from the eye to the camera and in the other from the camera to post processing. It is a mindset more than anything else, in my view anyway. I do appreciate however that technically the Q2M will produce high IQ in B&Q images for all sorts of technical reasons explained elsewhere. But the soul of the image is in the eye and intention of the photographer, not the instrument / tool. Just my 2 cents:)

I I understood well, you don't agree so much that the Q2M "needs" a different mind set, as we see the world in color anyway ( well  there are a few very rare exceptions). In my experience, having a b&w roll of film or setting the camera to a monochrome mode - some do allow that, even in raw format, despite having a color sensor ( and yes, the output is different in many ways than the Q2M) makes me look at any given scene in a very different way. I do occasional conversions from color to b&w, but some out of experimentation, and many others because the image somewhat lacks....a lusting color or something else.

Aside the technical part,  the knowing that is going to be a b&w image no matter what i do, has a significant impact of how I frame, set the camera and choose to take the picture or not 

But that's me - I am glad we are all different, and can see things in different ways, as otherwise would be very boring I understand your point, and you have your validations set on, which it's all good too. That's great that we can differ and discuss about it respecting each other's opinions.

Photography itself does not always have to be artistic or an expression of mind. Can be neither, both, or something else or simply whatever you feel like.

In this case a specialized instrument will change the eye intention and soul of the image - that's how I feel it

[acg69]

18 hours ago, nwphil said:

I I understood well, you don't agree so much that the Q2M "needs" a different mind set, as we see the world in color anyway ( well  there are a few very rare exceptions). In my experience, having a b&w roll of film or setting the camera to a monochrome mode - some do allow that, even in raw format, despite having a color sensor ( and yes, the output is different in many ways than the Q2M) makes me look at any given scene in a very different way. I do occasional conversions from color to b&w, but some out of experimentation, and many others because the image somewhat lacks....a lusting color or something else.

Aside the technical part,  the knowing that is going to be a b&w image no matter what i do, has a significant impact of how I frame, set the camera and choose to take the picture or not 

But that's me - I am glad we are all different, and can see things in different ways, as otherwise would be very boring I understand your point, and you have your validations set on, which it's all good too. That's great that we can differ and discuss about it respecting each other's opinions.

Photography itself does not always have to be artistic or an expression of mind. Can be neither, both, or something else or simply whatever you feel like.

In this case a specialized instrument will change the eye intention and soul of the image - that's how I feel it

Well said. All of it:)

[junix]

I'm relatively new to Leica, currently own an M10-R and M-A with some M lenses (35 FLE, 35 CRON V4,  28 SUMMARON, 50 LUX ASPH).. previously I was shooting Fuji for 7-8 years. Fuji's are splendid cameras but I was a bit tired of the overwhelming menu system and tons of options.. + I really fell in Love with the Leica experience and craftsmanship.

Was about to order a Summilux 28mm but lately I'm thinking to buy a Q2 instead.. I cannot decide between Q2 and Q2 Monochrome. I love shooting Tri-X on the M-A but I very rarely convert to B&W my M10-R shots. On the Fuji I turn on Acros simulation and I start thinking and seeing in B&W.. so maybe owning a Q2 Monochrome is exactly what I need to complement the M10-R. On the other hand if I buy the Monochrome I'm afraid I will also buy the M Summilux 28mm or a "normal" Q2...

Any insights from Q2 and Q2M users in a similar situation?

 

[JJ99]

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2 hours ago, junix said:

I'm relatively new to Leica, currently own an M10-R and M-A with some M lenses (35 FLE, 35 CRON V4,  28 SUMMARON, 50 LUX ASPH).. previously I was shooting Fuji for 7-8 years. Fuji's are splendid cameras but I was a bit tired of the overwhelming menu system and tons of options.. + I really fell in Love with the Leica experience and craftsmanship.

Was about to order a Summilux 28mm but lately I'm thinking to buy a Q2 instead.. I cannot decide between Q2 and Q2 Monochrome. I love shooting Tri-X on the M-A but I very rarely convert to B&W my M10-R shots. On the Fuji I turn on Acros simulation and I start thinking and seeing in B&W.. so maybe owning a Q2 Monochrome is exactly what I need to complement the M10-R. On the other hand if I buy the Monochrome I'm afraid I will also buy the M Summilux 28mm or a "normal" Q2...

Any insights from Q2 and Q2M users in a similar situation?

 

Not in the same situation really, but I did buy the Q2M & then 3 months later add a Q2. What I can say is that the Q2 is a great camera, but the Q2M is simply amazing. 

[nwphil]

2 hours ago, junix said:

I'm relatively new to Leica, currently own an M10-R and M-A with some M lenses (35 FLE, 35 CRON V4,  28 SUMMARON, 50 LUX ASPH).. previously I was shooting Fuji for 7-8 years. Fuji's are splendid cameras but I was a bit tired of the overwhelming menu system and tons of options.. + I really fell in Love with the Leica experience and craftsmanship.

Was about to order a Summilux 28mm but lately I'm thinking to buy a Q2 instead.. I cannot decide between Q2 and Q2 Monochrome. I love shooting Tri-X on the M-A but I very rarely convert to B&W my M10-R shots. On the Fuji I turn on Acros simulation and I start thinking and seeing in B&W.. so maybe owning a Q2 Monochrome is exactly what I need to complement the M10-R. On the other hand if I buy the Monochrome I'm afraid I will also buy the M Summilux 28mm or a "normal" Q2...

Any insights from Q2 and Q2M users in a similar situation?

 

I think you are a good candidate to own a Q2M more than the Q2 - do you have a chance to rent either locally?

[junix]

5 hours ago, JJ99 said:

Not in the same situation really, but I did buy the Q2M & then 3 months later add a Q2. What I can say is that the Q2 is a great camera, but the Q2M is simply amazing. 

Yes, I'm afraid something like this might happen to me too..  

5 hours ago, nwphil said:

I think you are a good candidate to own a Q2M more than the Q2 - do you have a chance to rent either locally?

Unfortunately no way to rent a Leica where I currently live. As far as I know, the only thing I can do is to go to the store (there is only one Leica store) and extensively try in store (which I probably will do this week as after 01/04/2021 prices will rise again..)

[JJ99]

3 hours ago, junix said:

Yes, I'm afraid something like this might happen to me too..  

Unfortunately no way to rent a Leica where I currently live. As far as I know, the only thing I can do is to go to the store (there is only one Leica store) and extensively try in store (which I probably will do this week as after 01/04/2021 prices will rise again..)

Then we look forward to seeing pics from both cameras soon.....😁

[nwphil]

well,  you are going to have to help yourself, to either negate or confirm the need of any of items you are thinking about. It's not the focal length, because you have al them already;  you have both b&w and color, system simplicity and high resolution - so what are you indeed missing?

only you can answer that, and it's ok if it is just GAS and not a need - does not stink and we only live once

Edited March 23, 2021 by nwphil

[newtoleica]

We'll of course you can set the Q2 to shoot in Mono as a preset. You have your full DNG file so you don't need to fiddle with filters, the advantage of seeing the image in mono. All you'll lose is a bit of high ISO. I do that with mine, and I do have an M9M - the CCD mono files are still quite something in my view.

[hdmesa]

On 3/22/2021 at 11:38 AM, junix said:

I'm relatively new to Leica, currently own an M10-R and M-A with some M lenses (35 FLE, 35 CRON V4,  28 SUMMARON, 50 LUX ASPH).. previously I was shooting Fuji for 7-8 years. Fuji's are splendid cameras but I was a bit tired of the overwhelming menu system and tons of options.. + I really fell in Love with the Leica experience and craftsmanship.

Was about to order a Summilux 28mm but lately I'm thinking to buy a Q2 instead.. I cannot decide between Q2 and Q2 Monochrome. I love shooting Tri-X on the M-A but I very rarely convert to B&W my M10-R shots. On the Fuji I turn on Acros simulation and I start thinking and seeing in B&W.. so maybe owning a Q2 Monochrome is exactly what I need to complement the M10-R. On the other hand if I buy the Monochrome I'm afraid I will also buy the M Summilux 28mm or a "normal" Q2...

Any insights from Q2 and Q2M users in a similar situation?

 

The Q2M is easily the best digital camera Leica has ever made and the best camera I have ever owned. I went the reverse direction and bought the Q2M first (also own the Q-P before that and still have it), then the M10-R. The Q2M would be my last camera standing out of all the cameras I own. It's like having a 4x5 black and white view camera loaded with film that gives me ISO 50 detail and ISO 12K latitude. And the close focusing of any Q will set the Q 28 Lux apart from the M Lux by a mile. The only advantage IMO to the M Lux would be better sharpness in the farthest corners when shooting landscape stopped down.

I bought all the B+W color filters in 49mm for the Q2M: yellow, orange, light red, dark red. The high ISO is so good on the Q2M, I leave the light red filter on full time – the 2.3 stops of light loss don't even make a dent in the IQ. 

Edit to say: Only other consideration is the Q2M will be quite a bit heavier than the Lux 28 in your bag – 734g vs 440g. I find carrying the M10-R with three lenses about the same weight as M10-R with one lens mounted plus the Q2M. (Having a few extra Q2 batteries in the bag accounts for some of that comparison – I have two extra batteries, and that feels almost as heavy as a very small M lens  .)

Edited March 29, 2021 by hdmesa

[junix]

Thnx once again too everyone.

I bought an Q2M yesterday, splendid camera, splendid.

[i-Leica]

Am 30.3.2021 um 18:32 schrieb junix:

Thnx once again too everyone.

I bought an Q2M yesterday, splendid camera, splendid.

congrats and a lot of fun with it

[thelivingyears]

What I ask myself all the time: Do you shoot in JPEG or RAW when using the Q2M?

As I understand it you will get rather flat picture when shooting in RAW and benefit of punchy pics when using the Leica JPEG engine.

Or to put it in different words: If you again have to convert it from RAW monochrom to a certain monochrom output in your photo editing software, where’s the difference to converting it from a Q2 Color picture into monochrom in Capture One. 

 

So does it make (more) sense to shoot JPEGs when using a Q2 Monochrom? 

I have to decide between those two. My first Leica btw. I also have a Sony A7III with nice lenses. I also think/hope that the monochrom version will make me a better photographer in the end. And I hope that I end up with more (better) pictures in the end since monochrom often makes it possible (especially when the background is busy/distracting).

 

So what about the JPEG Engine is it really good in the Q2M?

 

But still (to be honest)  I’m a bit afraid to let go of color... 

Edited May 29, 2021 by thelivingyears

[jaapv]

JPG throws away half the data and is an end product.  DNG looks flat because it has the full data. Process to your taste to get the best results out of the camera.

As for letting go of colour - that is the wrong approach.  You have to see in black and white.

[acg69]

I would have never thought that the Q2 vs Q2M would be an issue of contention among members, but right now, on the first page of the forum there are THREE threads with that very topic! I find it incredible:) It is a no brainer for me: if you primarily shoot B&W and are a perfectionist in terms of tonality, go for the Q2M at the expense of any color shot. If not, go for the Q2. It’s that simple really, or else I am a simple man…

[thelivingyears]

I have no idea whether you are a “simple man” since I don’t know you. But I assume you are not.

However: it’s not that simple (as you can see from the various threads on this topic - and there are much more).

 

 

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Look here: Leica Q

[acg69]

20 hours ago, thelivingyears said:

I have no idea whether you are a “simple man” since I don’t know you. But I assume you are not.

However: it’s not that simple (as you can see from the various threads on this topic - and there are much more).

 

 

Ι am also assuming that members here are not “simple men” or women for that matter. However, given that even the Q2 may be described as a “niche” camera (fixed, wide angle lens, FF, pretty expensive) and the Q2M way more so, by definition they cater to very specific market segments. If a photographer knows his needs and shooting style, these two are pretty much mutually exclusive options, aren’t they? If money is no option, one could get both just for kicks. However, even in this group, I am pretty certain that money does not grow on trees and one usually (usually, not always) does have to choose. If one is shooting color alongside a majority of shots in B&W, why would they forego that option for a monochrome only sensor? If one is B&W exclusively they could opt for the incremental tonality gains afforded by the Q2M. What other use cases are there?

I occasionally shoot B&W and converting is fine for me - you can see my work at writelight.net, no complaints about the quality yet, although I realize that the M is better in several lighting conditions. Choosing to shoot B&W (albeit JPEG) with the Q2 puts you in that same “B&W mindset” with the image seen in B&W, as with the Q2M. Again, all this is irrelevant to B&W only shooters:)