Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4ii or Ultron 35mm f2

[geoffreyg]

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"photographer and the gear" is very close to "artist and the tools". 

Isn't quite the same as the role of the material in the work, but its related. 

All are valid but never easy to discuss. Throw in expensive gear, and the conversation can go sideways fast. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by geoffreyg

[Cayenne]

2 hours ago, Harpomatic said:

Can I ask what the lens rendering has to do with the image value at all here? It’s a great image, it would be a great image with a worse lens or the new APO-Summicron 35mm. It’s a great image and any emotion is given by the content, the photographer’s choice of time and composition and the subject. Not the lens!

By the way, I fully agree with the rest of your post.

While I understand where you are coming from on this type statement....

To me, part of "the image" is the rendering of the lens...to me, the rendering is as much a part of "the image" as composition and exposure.

 

To me the image is all parts and I couldn't leave lens rendering out of the equation at all. In fact, often I think that is part of the emotion of the image that you are referring to.

 

Just my $0.02,

cayenne

Edited March 12, 2021 by Cayenne

[mheine]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Harpomatic:

Can I ask what the lens rendering has to do with the image value at all here? It’s a great image, it would be a great image with a worse lens or the new APO-Summicron 35mm. It’s a great image and any emotion is given by the content, the photographer’s choice of time and composition and the subject. Not the lens!

By the way, I fully agree with the rest of your post.

Yes, of course you can ask that question! 🙂

I think that lenses that are "(too) perfect" won't give you the same feeling / emotions of an image that's shot on a lens with flaws. As mentioned before, I have the ZEISS which is optically superior but my images, such as them out of the Q, won't have the same "feeling" as them I took with the Nokton. Of course, this is all my personal view, some / many see this different but as I have the Q / ZEISS as a comparison and I know that I don't shoot differently with the Voigtlander, I can clearly say that the one with the Voigtlander have more "soul / feeling". So, "clinical lenses" in my world won't give you "beautiful" rendering but this doesn't mean that they suck. I just don't get it to shoot such lenses for traveling, portrait work, for fun, ... as a lens for commercial stuff such as product photography, it's another story and they do make sense to me. 

To sum everything up: For me the Leica M system is for imperfect images that are telling a story. This is why I got myself a M because I didn't like that modern perfect look that I had with my Sony and I wanted a camera system that feels more "direct". A small, light camera that I take everywhere and doesn't look like a bazooka in my hands. I use my ZEISS only for shootings with customers and when I want to deliver "perfect shots" but I don't use it very often for private stuff because it's "too damn good". And if I want those super perfect shots, I would get myself a autofocus camera that nails those wide-open shots.
Because let's be honest, these APO lenses (and all other M lenses) only shine if you focus 100% correct otherwise you won't get the fully potential and unsharp images (like with any other cheap / expensive lens). So, I recommend everyone not to pay so much money for lenses where you focus manuallyl and often miss the focus. My advice: Buy yourself a modern camera that gets almost every shot on point, even wide open and save a lot (a loooooooot) money and use your M for fun with lenses that have a distinct look / character. 
 
And last but not least, all of those great Leica photographer of the past didn't had those "perfect" lenses like they could have now but still their images are beautiful, thanks to glows, vignette, distortion, flares, ... 

And as I said before, I don't want to attack anyone with my posts! Everyone should buy what makes real sense to themself, of course.

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

I'm a bit sick and tired of reading the old adage "its the photographer, not the gear".

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 So untrue indeed. I have had at least 20 times the independent proof that the used lens was decisive in the appreciation of the image by my audience, family and friends. In this case I’m talking about the Summilux 75. Time and time again I am surprised about the enthusiasm for an image which I could have made with any other lens but with this lens the immediate reactions are always much more than just: “oh, nice..”

[Guest]

7 hours ago, mheine said:

This is a great shot and has emotions in it, something you won't get with a super sharp, technical perfect lens. Character over perfection all day, as long it's for personal work.
 

This sounds great and I am happy that you have the same feeling about the lens as I have!

I think way too much people are chasing that "perfect equipment" and think that their (bad / decent) shots will become art just because of using super expensive camera gear. No offense against most Noctilux users but spending around 9k to shoot almost 90% blurry images because the focus wasn't nailed is just questionable, to me. But I don't get that Leica lens hype at all (had two for a week), I think as long you're not a pixel peeper (for me those who are don't understand what photography is all about) almost everything on the market is more than enough, even these Chinese lenses. 

And everyone who says the Nokton is garbage is just not willing to pay attention of how the lens actually works. You can get great results with the Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 if you "know what you're doing". There are tons of great photographers using that lens, some are even pushed by Leica themself, examples:
https://www.instagram.com/traegi
https://www.instagram.com/josselin
https://www.instagram.com/polina.washington

Is the 90% blurry image noctilux comment factual?

People who use the voigtlander 35mm f1.4 get good results as long as like you they know what their doing,does anybody using very expensive leica lenses know what their doing?  

Is a couple of weeks with leica lenses enough to have a full grasp of their qualities? 

If the chinese lenses are so good why waste lots of money buying voigtlander?

I like the nokton by the way but already have a 35mm lens and only ever use one lens at any particular focal length but still like reading about other lenses.

[Harpomatic]

I will refrain from saying that again in the future then. But I still want to say that this being a gear oriented forum does not mean that we should lose sight of the core of the photography expression, and the fact that gear is a tool as already mentioned. I have never heard a professional photographer talking about gear so much. They just use the tools they have and go out to shoot and create. 

This being a photography gear forum I was under the (false?) impression that the people using such gear would be more focused on using it to create and less on valuing an image for its optical flaws. But that is only my personal view, and it’s not meant to antagonise anybody or to disrespect anyone. 
This is the last time I will pronounce myself on this, I will stop “polluting” the forum with this kind of opinion.

6 hours ago, lct said:

Haha and of course it is never someone who can afford the gear in question . Nothing personal either .

That is such a snob thing to say. This is one reason we, as Leica users, get so much hate from people that choose other systems and especially have not thousands of £/$/€ in disposable income to indulge in such a luxury item.

I can afford it and have 6 recent Leica lenses. Of which I’m going to sell 5 because there are better choices FOR ME and I don’t need to feel superior.

Nothing personal here as well, but please stop that nonsense!

I’ll shut up now and please let’s get the thread back on topic.

[Dennis]

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Do you know if I can use this lens hood https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/361534-REG/Zeiss_1365_667_Lens_Hood_for_35mm.html on the Nokton II?

I'm using it with my 35/2.8 Biogon which is 43mm thread, but I would happily use it with a Nokton as well if fits 🙂

 

[lct]

9 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Do you know if I can use this lens hood https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/361534-REG/Zeiss_1365_667_Lens_Hood_for_35mm.html on the Nokton II?

I'm using it with my 35/2.8 Biogon which is 43mm thread, but I would happily use it with a Nokton as well if fits 🙂

 

I have that very hood on both my CV 35/1.4 SC v2 and ZM 35/2.8.Works perfectly on both lenses. It is a bit more expensive than the similar CV hood though.

[Harpomatic]

21 minutes ago, Steven said:

Great post, thanks for taking the time to express this. 

Before we get back to the thread, sorry but you raised my curiosity now and I gotta ask !!!! What are the six recent lenses you own, what are the five you're selling, why, and how is the last one you'll own enough for all your needs?! 🤪😇

Hey, I didn’t say I will sell all lenses but one, I said I’ll sell 5 Leica ones! I have to say I made a mistake, one of the is not recent and it’s the one I’m keeping: the Leica Tele-Elmarit 90mm 2.8 “thin”. I’m selling the Summicron 50mm v5, Summicron 28 Asph, Elmarit 28 Asph, Summilux 50 Asph, Summarit 75 2.5 .

I’ll be keeping the Nokton 50mm 1.5 II, Zeiss Biogon 28 2.8, Zeiss Biogon 35mm F2, and the above mentioned Tele-Elmarit.

I really like focus rings, not tabs! 😁

[lct]

30 minutes ago, Harpomatic said:

That is such a snob thing to say. This is one reason we, as Leica users, get so much hate from people that choose other systems and especially have not thousands of £/$/€ in disposable income to indulge in such a luxury item.

Don't take it personally please this is just an internet forum and what i aid was not directed at you but hate is something i've never met about cameras i must say. Now i'm snobbish enough to prefer the same expensive Zeiss hood over the cheaper CV one because i can remove the white paint out of it more easily .

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[lct]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

what i aid was not directed at you

I meant what i "said" sorry. How do you manage to edit posts now folks?

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, lct said:

I have that very hood on both my CV 35/1.4 SC v2 and ZM 35/2.8.Works perfectly on both lenses. It is a bit more expensive than the similar CV hood though.

Thank you! This is an excellent news!

46 minutes ago, Harpomatic said:

I really like focus rings, not tabs! 😁

I really like focus tab, no rings 😆 That's why we have many options to choose from 

38 minutes ago, lct said:

I meant what i "said" sorry. How do you manage to edit posts now folks?

🤔

[mheine]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb steve 1959:

Is the 90% blurry image noctilux comment factual?

People who use the voigtlander 35mm f1.4 get good results as long as like you they know what their doing,does anybody using very expensive leica lenses know what their doing?  

Is a couple of weeks with leica lenses enough to have a full grasp of their qualities? 

If the chinese lenses are so good why waste lots of money buying voigtlander?

I like the nokton by the way but already have a 35mm lens and only ever use one lens at any particular focal length but still like reading about other lenses.

Thank you for the compliment - dunno if I know exactly what I am doing but I take that, haha! 😁

That 90% blurry shots statement counts for every fast manual lens but especially the Noctilux because of its aperture value. It just looks like that many pay those high prices to get a kind of acceptance from the community because they are using the latest and greatest (expensive) stuff from Leica. I don't want to sound rude again but taking some snaps of your cat with a 15k+ equipment is just ridiculous, to be honest. The Leica marketing department is doing a great job to push people to buy such expensive gear without using it for professional work but snapshots.

I prefer the Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4 over all the Chinese branded lenses because of the smaller package, handling and of course the character (nervous bokeh, soft, flares, distortion, vignette).

And I think gear is important in some way, I won't get the same kind of images with an iPhone, that's sure. But I have the feeling that too much people are throwing their money on expensive camera stuff and think it will have a massive impact on their images. Just by having a sharper, "perfect lens" your imagination won't level up.

So, better optical quality / gear won't fix shitty images (that we all take).
 

vor 18 Stunden schrieb lct:

Haha and of course it is never someone who can afford the gear in question . Nothing personal either .

… or some are smart enough and don't spend their hard earned money on overhyped lenses. I take the Nokton 35mm f1.4 all day over the new APO Summicron for example. 😜
 

[mheine]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Steven:

I own both (actually own two different Nokton 35 1.4) and they serve very different purposes. I love my Nokton. I love my APO. I dont think any are over hyped. 

Don't get me wrong, the APO is a superb lens (I am 100% sure about that) but I don't get why people that are using their M cameras for personal stuff / for fun dream about getting or even actual buy one. It's just an overkill if not used for professional stuff, in my opinion. I don't think that any of your friends, family members or whoever will see any real difference or zoom at 200% (if you nailed the focus) and count hairs. Too many are dreaming about such lenses than just to go out and shoot with what they already got. And I don't mean you for example, you do business on Instagram (at least it seems so) and I can see why you want a lens of this caliber. 🙂

[lct]

56 minutes ago, mheine said:

… or some are smart enough and don't spend their hard earned money on overhyped lenses. I take the Nokton 35mm f1.4 all day over the new APO Summicron for example. 😜

Why overhyped? As far as personal taste goes i like much my CV 35/1.4 SC v2 but not the v1 of it at all and i think i could spend that sort of money on the 35/2 apo if it were significantly smaller but i don't use much my 50/2 apo as i prefer character lenses generally so i suspect a smaller 35/2 apo would not do it for me that much. Now this is the Leica forum anyway so if one feels the need to ask the price... you know what JP Morgan said about that .

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Steven said:

What didn't you like about the V1? 

Flare and focus shift.  

[Ccoppola82]

This might be totally nuts, but I sold my Nokton and got an FLE. I’m thinking of grabbing another nokton v2 if I see a used one.  I love the ergonomics of it.  

[ocean2059]

1 hour ago, Ccoppola82 said:

This might be totally nuts, but I sold my Nokton and got an FLE. I’m thinking of grabbing another nokton v2 if I see a used one.  I love the ergonomics of it.  

I would recommend that. I have both FLE and Nokton v2/SC and enjoy using both for different looks.  

[lct]

The CV 35/1.4 SC v1 flares even more than my Summilux 35/1.4 v2. The CV 35/1.4 SC v2 flares significantly less than both of them (link) but i haven't use it at night yet.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[astrostl]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

If talking about my case, I dont agree. I am not a professional photographer. Just a hobbyist. I did not buy the APO so that I could count hair. I bought it because it produces an overall look (similar than the Q2) where things look so real that the subjects have a very 3D pop effect. For street photography, and landscapes, I am a fan of this look. 

When I am with friends and people in general, I prefer to go out with the Nokton with produces a totally different, more cinematic, organic, imperfect look. It's more flattering. 

I didn't need a perfect lens. I wanted the look it produces. Thats it. 

To be fair - didn't you preorder the lens prior to any of us knowing what its look would be?