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On 7/13/2021 at 6:15 AM, IkarusJohn said:

Probably because so few of them were made, and almost all will be glued to the M60s.  Perhaps when the M60s in use finally die, we might see them pop up.  They won’t be cheap …

This it?
 

https://www.fotopia.com.hk/#!product/showAjax/1708/Leica Summilux-M 35mm F1.4 ASPH - Stainless Steel / M60 / FLE

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M11 Update:  - The possibility of a previous design changed mentioned earlier on the thread seems to be an aborted lead. The M11 should look exactly like the M10, and have precisely the same dimension. Relief.  - No space for EVF and Ibis (confirmed) - Around 60MP BSI sensor with three different shooting modes for smaller files (confirmed) - New visoflex should be compatible with M10. It will have a slightly rounder design but not much smaller. Oled hi res EVF.  - No bot

Hello,  Those who know me know I have a very slim track record for upcoming product rumours, and that my source is someone serious. Here's what I got for you today !  1. The 28-70 SL F2.8 that I previously told you about here is still happening, but it is delayed at least to Q2.  2. The SL28 APO has finally been announced internally and is supposedly in the hands of reviewers... The end of the embargo is set for late February. It will cost 4600 euros and will be available mid marc

Don’t worry - you’ll have to. 

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9 hours ago, darylgo said:

$8,856.91 US, not unreasonable for mint condition.  I paid $7000 for a copy with a few marks on it two years ago.  

I am not attracted to that lens. I think the FLE is one of the worst 35 one can get today. I like the collector and unique aspect of that lens, but I dont think it looks good on any camera. Too modern, and the color isn't right. 

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26 minutes ago, Steven said:

. I think the FLE is one of the worst 35 one can get today

Worst how? (Don't bother to answer, but such comments have no credibility). Photography is about the photographic print, so go make some prints to your style and then tell us what you don't like about the FLE image.. 

 

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16 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Worst how? (Don't bother to answer, but such comments have no credibility). Photography is about the photographic print, so go make some prints to your style and then tell us what you don't like about the FLE image.. 

 

I said "I think". I'm allowed to think. I think it's the most transparent summilux 35 ever made so far. I think it's the worst 35 you can get, together with the 35 Summicron Asph. I think it is bad value. I think it's uncomfortable ergonomacally. I think the silver version is an ugly silver lens. I think there's no value in this lens, as you could get the much nicer Pre Fle for half the price. I think it's an unnecessary lens. I think it's the most uninteresting 35 in terms of rendering. I think it's imperfect, when it sells on the basis of being a perfect lens. I think many others have agreed with me. I think many others have hated the 35 FLE. I think many others have returned it. I think I'm credible. 

I think this thread was intended for me (and others) to give news about upcoming products, and not discuss the 35 FLE. 

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8 hours ago, Steven said:

I said "I think"…

Fair enough. I’ve been there myself. But then ..

Quote

I think I'm credible. 

Hmm …

I think Erwin Puts is credible:

Quote

The new Summilux-M 1:1/4/35 mm ASPH FLE definitely a significant improvement over its predecessor, not so much in the basic performance criteria, but in those areas that count in the age of digital capture: the focus shift has been eliminated, the image quality in close distance range has been improved visibly and last but not least the propensity for flare and secondary reflections has been eliminated …

He says a lot more, but you get the drift.

Or Brian Bower and Nobby Clark (why are Clarks always called “Nobby”?)

Quote

Overall performance is outstanding, very similar to its predecessor, the ASPH Mk 1 version, but with worthwhile gains to image quality in the near range and reduced focus shift as the aperture is changed …

Tim Ashley, a respected member here with his own review website (discontinued, sadly) identified what he called a “wavey” plane of best focus, which drove him to discontinue his use of the lens. 

I claim no credibility, but didn’t gel with the 35 Summicron-M ASPH or the Summilux FLE, but that has more to do with my indifference with the 35mm field of view. I do have the 35 Summilux pre-asph, but don’t use it that much as it flares like crazy - not just annoying little balls of flare, but nasty counter-veiling flare across the entire image. 




 

Edited by jaapv
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  • 2 weeks later...

M11 Update: 

- The possibility of a previous design changed mentioned earlier on the thread seems to be an aborted lead. The M11 should look exactly like the M10, and have precisely the same dimension. Relief. 

- No space for EVF and Ibis (confirmed)

- Around 60MP BSI sensor with three different shooting modes for smaller files (confirmed)

- New visoflex should be compatible with M10. It will have a slightly rounder design but not much smaller. Oled hi res EVF. 

- No bottom plate to focus on weather sealing of the electronics (confirmed)

- New battery (not the same a Q2 and SL2) for almost double the duration time. 

- Maestro 3, faster buffer 

- High possibility of an electronic shutter allowing us to shoot faster than 1/4000th

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Posted (edited)
Quote

The M11 should look exactly like the M10, and have precisely the same dimension.

Thank goodness for that!!

Quote

Around 60MP BSI sensor

I'm guessing the BSI sensor will give the M11 +1EV of ISO over the M10, making its maximum ISO 100,000?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Herr Barnack
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vor 8 Stunden schrieb Steven:

M11 Update: 

- The possibility of a previous design changed mentioned earlier on the thread seems to be an aborted lead. The M11 should look exactly like the M10, and have precisely the same dimension. Relief. 

- No space for EVF and Ibis (confirmed)

- Around 60MP BSI sensor with three different shooting modes for smaller files (confirmed)

- New visoflex should be compatible with M10. It will have a slightly rounder design but not much smaller. Oled hi res EVF. 

- No bottom plate to focus on weather sealing of the electronics (confirmed)

- New battery (not the same a Q2 and SL2) for almost double the duration time. 

- Maestro 3, faster buffer 

- High possibility of an electronic shutter allowing us to shoot faster than 1/4000th

Concering the design, thanks, this confirms some information on my side. However, the fact that I must manage now 5 different batteries and chargers is not a good news. M8/9, M, M10, SL...M11. However In the real world, I will never travel with more than 2 bodies.... 

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Posted (edited)

60 megapixels in a 24x36mm sensor - this makes me wonder about noise problems.  I can't see Leica releasing the M11 with that size sensor if it is going to have significant noise issues, though.  BSI may be the answer to the noise issue. 

This may finally silence the Nikon/Canon/Sony lovers who have mocked M cameras for their supposed "low" megapixel count sensors - not that they ever mattered.  I never listened to the Leica mockers to begin with.

Edited by Herr Barnack
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7 hours ago, SiggiGun said:

Concering the design, thanks, this confirms some information on my side. However, the fact that I must manage now 5 different batteries and chargers is not a good news. M8/9, M, M10, SL...M11. However In the real world, I will never travel with more than 2 bodies.... 

There has got to be a way for Leica to engineer a universal battery charger and keep it to 1.5 - 2x the size of a single battery type charger. 

That's an accessory which would sell by the billions.

Can someone direct me to the official Wetzlar suggestion box??

Edited by Herr Barnack
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vor 28 Minuten schrieb Herr Barnack:

There has got to be a way for Leica to engineer a universal battery charger and keep it to 1.5 - 2x the size of a single battery type charger. 

That's an accessory which would sell by the billions.

Can someone direct me to the official Wetzlar suggestion box??

Good idea, however I guess this is not evident (for raisonnable cost) to handle different mecanucal and electrical constallations

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I have a Fuji charger (supplied with an X10) that takes 2 different sized battery packs - it has 2 sets of contacts at “12 o’clock”and “3 o’clock” and the batteries click in vertically or horizontally depending on which size they are and shipped with different camera ranges. Not really any bigger than a single charger - it could definitely work for traditional M type batteries that sit flat onto the contacts but maybe not SL/Q types...

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7 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

60 megapixels in a 24x36mm sensor - this makes me wonder about noise problems.  I can't see Leica releasing the M11 with that size sensor if it is going to have significant noise issues, though.  BSI may be the answer to the noise issue. 

BSI will provide about 1 stop improvement in noise, all things being equal. Going from 40 MP to 60 MP will typically reduce the pixel’s photo sensitive area by about half. So they’ll probably cancel out any improvement in noise between each other. So barring any other additional improvements in noise from the sensor technology from other design aspects, we’ll probably see very similar noise performance to the M10-R, or at best maybe 1/2 to 1 stop in noise performance.

All that being said, at 60MP, without IBIS, I’d be more concerned about shutter speed and hand holding in low light, even with relatively fast apertures. The other problem is that, beyond the latest generation of more modern M-lenses, most of the non-APO M-primes except for the 21/24 SEM and 90 macro, will likely struggle to produce high microcontrast at 60 MP.

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I think it is pretty well accepted that improving sensor performance will improve image quality, regardless how old the lens is, and improving the lens will improve the image, regardless of the sensor.  With the exception of the move from film to digital, I don’t think I’ve seen an improvement in a sensor make an image taken with any lens, regardless of age, look worse.  I might be wrong on this, but I don’t think that is what happens.

What we have seen is some lenses that work well, or okay, on an M camera not work quite so well on the SL, but then some M lenses work better on the SL than on the M (the Noctilux 0.95 and 28 Summilux being two examples).  That is not a sensor improvement, but an entirely different platform.

In the M, we’ve had 18MP in the M9 & Monochrom; 24MP in the M240 and M10; and 40MP in the M10-R and M10-M.  Can anyone point to an M lens that has performed worse when the sensor has been “improved”?

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