Is the king of bokeh lens also a sharp lens?

[Steven]

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3 hours ago, grahamc said:

hey do more or less the same thing but the Cron can't do the lux !

This is exactly the conclusion I came to, two years ago, when I owned both lens. It made no sense to own both. One reason I reconsidered briefly the V4 is because one thing I learned after 3 years with the pre asph is that it can be a bit of a diva. You can have some really unexpected results sometimes, and I understand from forum members' testimonials that the v4 is very consistent. 

That being said, since I use my pre asps without hoods, I don't think I would notice and an compactness upgrade between the two!

Thanks for your contribution Graham, you know I love your photography, so it means a lot. 

[Steven]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

let's see how this lens or "1.4" render in Kodachrome

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some decades ago,

still "fresh" (for me of course)

I remember seeing this photo with gorgeous colours a few years back. Still as nice today. Intemporal. 

I believe in the return of Kodachrome, one day. 

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[rcusick]

8 hours ago, Steven said:

Thank you so much. Based on your post, I still don't see a reason to own both, but I know well enough that real life, long term shooting is the only thing that can really answer that. 

By the way, sharpness is not really my concern. I like the soft look of my pre asph. It's the color that I'm getting a little bored of lately. 

Color is a bit more saturated and with a bit more contrast in the v4 Cron than pre-apsh due to more modern coatings.  Note: the steel rim reissue renders colors more like a contemporary lens.  The v4 is much more like r lenses from the 80's / min nineties.

[derleicaman]

20 hours ago, Steven said:

@derleicaman Bill, I know you enjoy a great deal your V4, and I know you also love your Summilux Pre Asph. Could you tell us more about how they compare at F2 and beyond ? Is it really worth owning both, do they complement each other ? 

The pre asph is my most used 35, an all time favorite. It's size is addictive. While I love its rendering wide open and closed down on digital, I use 1.4 less on film. And closed down, I'm starting to get a bit bored by it's lack of contrast and saturation. As an alternative, I've been using the Nokton 35 1.4 closed down, and it gives me an enjoyable look, but I like to shoot Leica. This is why I've had the V4 on my mind lately, but I wonder if I need it when I have a pre asph. 

Hello Steven,

Sorry to get back to you late on this. Believe it or not, I never used the v4 when I was shooting film. Simple reason was, I didn't own one then! I always used my 35/1.4 pre-Asph, and then my 35/1.4 ASPH in film days, which is the best 35 I have ever used. This was with color neg and Kodachrome, and my constant companion along with my 1984 Photokina M6.

I acquired the first 35/2 v4 Canadian from one of my old customers who had purchased it from me back in the 80's, along with his M6. He also had a 21/2.8 Elmarit, 90/2.8 Skinny Tele-Elmarit and 50/2 v4. I bought the entire package, and decided to treat myself by keeping the 35/2 v4 after selling off the rest. The lens was great, but had a bit of the over-torquing, alignment issue with the optical cell and the mount. I had an opportunity to trade for a Wetzlar version that had been serviced at Leica Wetzlar and jumped on it. Because of its improved costruction, the Wetzlar version is a big improvement, even though it is the same lens optically as the Canadian version. I never have to worry about over torquing the mount when mounting or dismounting the lens as I did with the Canadian version.

What I like most about the lens is that it is very happy with either my M10-P and M10-M, giving excellent images both wide open and stopped down. It is also a very compact package, which is the main reason why I have stopped using the 35/1.4 ASPH as my daily carry. It is just a bit bulky, and the hood on it drives me nuts. For comparison I also have a 35/2 v2 Wetzlar, a 35/2.8 Summaron, and a 35/2 Summicron ASPH. I prefer the v4 KOB to all of them for one reason or another.

I hope this helps.

[derleicaman]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

This is exactly the conclusion I came to, two years ago, when I owned both lens. It made no sense to own both. One reason I reconsidered briefly the V4 is because one thing I learned after 3 years with the pre asph is that it can be a bit of a diva. You can have some really unexpected results sometimes, and I understand from forum members' testimonials that the v4 is very consistent. 

That being said, since I use my pre asps without hoods, I don't think I would notice and an compactness upgrade between the two!

Thanks for your contribution Graham, you know I love your photography, so it means a lot. 

I do see a reason to have both lenses. One reason why I still have the Summilux is that my dad bought it for me back in 1972, after we attended the Leica School in Wetzlar. So sentimental reason one. I used it on a regular basis until I got the 35/1.4 ASPH in 1992, purchased during Photokina in Cologne. Also with my dad. About two years ago, I pulled the old Summilux pre-Asph lens out and started playing with it again. I was surprised at the dual nature of the lens which I had never paid too much attention to back in film days. Must be something about using a digital M. You play with your old lenses more, and through the instant feedback of the high res screen of the M10, you notice things with new eyes. I really started to see the "dual nature" of my old friend wide open and stopped down. This struck me so much, that I mentioned it to Stefan Daniel on a phone call we had during Covid. Stefan laughed and said, "You guessed what the next new Retro Leica lens would be!" What a minute, what? He said the next new lens would be the Steel Rim. Wow! Just a fun little story!

[lct]

34 minutes ago, rcusick said:

Color is a bit more saturated and with a bit more contrast in the v4 Cron than pre-apsh due to more modern coatings.  Note: the steel rim reissue renders colors more like a contemporary lens.  The v4 is much more like r lenses from the 80's / min nineties.

+1. There is almost one generation difference in the design of those lenses (1961-1979). When the 35/2 v4 was launched (been there) it was considered a modern lens compared to the Summilux which had less contrast and more flare with less saturated colors. This comparison was fair concerning the 35/1.4 v1, but less so concerning the 35/1.4 v2 which has more contrast and saturation. Reason why it is not always easy to recognize them actually. All in all, as far as my German-made copies are concerned, the 35/1.4 v2 has more glow, more coma and more flare than the 35/2 v4 but it has, for these very reasons, more character than the latter. Both keepers IMHO.

[Steven]

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15 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Hello Steven,

Sorry to get back to you late on this. Believe it or not, I never used the v4 when I was shooting film. Simple reason was, I didn't own one then! I always used my 35/1.4 pre-Asph, and then my 35/1.4 ASPH in film days, which is the best 35 I have ever used. This was with color neg and Kodachrome, and my constant companion along with my 1984 Photokina M6.

I acquired the first 35/2 v4 Canadian from one of my old customers who had purchased it from me back in the 80's, along with his M6. He also had a 21/2.8 Elmarit, 90/2.8 Skinny Tele-Elmarit and 50/2 v4. I bought the entire package, and decided to treat myself by keeping the 35/2 v4 after selling off the rest. The lens was great, but had a bit of the over-torquing, alignment issue with the optical cell and the mount. I had an opportunity to trade for a Wetzlar version that had been serviced at Leica Wetzlar and jumped on it. Because of its improved costruction, the Wetzlar version is a big improvement, even though it is the same lens optically as the Canadian version. I never have to worry about over torquing the mount when mounting or dismounting the lens as I did with the Canadian version.

What I like most about the lens is that it is very happy with either my M10-P and M10-M, giving excellent images both wide open and stopped down. It is also a very compact package, which is the main reason why I have stopped using the 35/1.4 ASPH as my daily carry. It is just a bit bulky, and the hood on it drives me nuts. For comparison I also have a 35/2 v2 Wetzlar, a 35/2.8 Summaron, and a 35/2 Summicron ASPH. I prefer the v4 KOB to all of them for one reason or another.

I hope this helps.

Bill, thank you, it's crystal clear. 

Your opinion is one I value. Thanks for taking the tip to go into details. Hope you're in good form. 

[a.noctilux]

23 hours ago, farnz said:

I like this picture very much, Arnaud, for the way it portrays the gorgeous light on the river wall, and the question(s) posed by the gentleman in black.

Might I humbly offer a title?  "In Seine."

Pete.

Thanks a lot Pete.

Of course you can title it as you want.

When I took the picture, so long ago, as free wanderer, the Seine's flood interested me and the gentleman in black was there to complete the Seine/scene so well ...

I saw kind of "meditation" myself.

[hdmesa]

On 5/10/2023 at 7:19 AM, Steven said:

...One reason I reconsidered briefly the V4 is because one thing I learned after 3 years with the pre asph is that it can be a bit of a diva. You can have some really unexpected results sometimes, and I understand from forum members' testimonials that the v4 is very consistent...

I have a v4 Germany arriving tomorrow from Leica Miami. It's had a Leica CLA and 6-bit coding added. I'm hoping it will serve as a slightly more compact alternative to the ASPH v1 I sold, which was great on film but "meh" on digital. I'm hoping the v4 can can hold similar color and contrast to the ASPH but have a little bit more character wide open. I recently tried the Steel Rim reissue – ok on digital, but stopped down it didn't have that certain something the ASPH did on film.

[Steven]

3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I have a v4 Germany arriving tomorrow from Leica Miami. It's had a Leica CLA and 6-bit coding added. I'm hoping it will serve as a slightly more compact alternative to the ASPH v1 I sold, which was great on film but "meh" on digital. I'm hoping the v4 can can hold similar color and contrast to the ASPH but have a little bit more character wide open. I recently tried the Steel Rim reissue – ok on digital, but stopped down it didn't have that certain something the ASPH did on film.

The steel rim reissue is a disaster. The original v1 or v2 Summilux is a gem. My number one leica lens of all times. I own over ten copies. 
 

I recently repurchased a few KOBs to give them another try. I think it will meet your demands. A good mix of « modern » rendering and character. silver copies are extremely well built and a pleasure to carry all day.  

[hdmesa]

12 minutes ago, Steven said:

The steel rim reissue is a disaster. The original v1 or v2 Summilux is a gem. My number one leica lens of all times. I own over ten copies. 
 

I recently repurchased a few KOBs to give them another try. I think it will meet your demands. A good mix of « modern » rendering and character. silver copies are extremely well built and a pleasure to carry all day.  

My biggest gripe with the Steel Rim reissue is they changed the external lens profile to accommodate the 46mm filter threads. It's not even the same lens externally. It's ludicrous that they felt it was ok to make the lens fatter but not update the minimum focusing distance to 0.7m. And I feel like the modern coatings are a problem with this lens. These coatings actually work well with the 28 Summaron reissue, but the Steel Rim reissue should have been single coated.

If the KOBs don't end up working for you, there's always the ASPH. If you try the ASPH, the v1 in silver is what I'd recommend since it's brass and feels very high quality.

[caloosajo]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I have a v4 Germany arriving tomorrow from Leica Miami. It's had a Leica CLA and 6-bit coding added. I'm hoping it will serve as a slightly more compact alternative to the ASPH v1 I sold, which was great on film but "meh" on digital. I'm hoping the v4 can can hold similar color and contrast to the ASPH but have a little bit more character wide open. I recently tried the Steel Rim reissue – ok on digital, but stopped down it didn't have that certain something the ASPH did on film.

Pretty sure that’s the one I sold to them earlier this year. Rest assured I was a good steward of that lens, and very much enjoyed it on M10, M10M, and MP with the usual suspects of Tri-X, HP5 @800, and Portra 400. Great contrast stopped down f4 and beyond, and a soothingly modest character wide open. Maybe a whiff of cyan bias for the few frames I used it with the M11, but was not at all a factor in my decision to say goodbye.

Just ended up reaching for the Lux Pre-ASPH v2 Wetzlar more often to scratch the vintage/character itch, and the FLE V1 is my “ride or die” haha.

Congrats and enjoy, @hdmesa!

[hdmesa]

22 minutes ago, caloosajo said:

Pretty sure that’s the one I sold to them earlier this year. Rest assured I was a good steward of that lens, and very much enjoyed it on M10, M10M, and MP with the usual suspects of Tri-X, HP5 @800, and Portra 400. Great contrast stopped down f4 and beyond, and a soothingly modest character wide open. Maybe a whiff of cyan bias for the few frames I used it with the M11, but was not at all a factor in my decision to say goodbye.

Just ended up reaching for the Lux Pre-ASPH v2 Wetzlar more often to scratch the vintage/character itch, and the FLE V1 is my “ride or die” haha.

Congrats and enjoy, @hdmesa!

Thanks! Josh told me it took about 5 months for the CLA + 6-bit code service, so that sounds about right for the timeline. I promise to take excellent care of it. I'll be shooting it with Ektachrome 100, CineStill BwXX/800T, and T-Max 100/400/3200. I may have a roll or two of Portra 400 left floating around as well. For digital, I'll be using it with the SL2-S (and possibly an M11M in the near future if all the stars align just right).

I loved the Lux v2, and one day I hope to have another copy. I'm about to the point where I want to get rid of my 28 and 50 only shoot 35/40/75, which seem to be the best focal lengths for me.

[BigBabyEarl]

8 hours ago, Steven said:

The steel rim reissue is a disaster. The original v1 or v2 Summilux is a gem. My number one leica lens of all times. I own over ten copies. 
 

I recently repurchased a few KOBs to give them another try. I think it will meet your demands. A good mix of « modern » rendering and character. silver copies are extremely well built and a pleasure to carry all day.  

Can you elaborate on why you feel the SR is a disaster? I just ordered one 😂

[Steven]

2 hours ago, BigBabyEarl said:

Can you elaborate on why you feel the SR is a disaster? I just ordered one 😂

Wide open it glows so much’, and it such an ugly way that I find the lens unusable. Stopped down it’s modern and pointless, and has no charm. The original is so much more subtle and pretty at all apertures. I don’t like the way it’s built either. If feels like a Chinese knockoff when compared to my original steel rims. I really gave it a chance, but it’s just an unusable lens for me. 
i understand not everyone can afford the original, but I’d take a v2 original for less money than the reissue any time of the day. If I was you, I’d cancel my order Amd get a v2. 
 

there’s a photographer from paris that has been in love with the reissue. I then loaned him four or five different steel rims, some v2 infinity lock, and some regular v2. After a month of trying them, he hated his reissue and is selling it to fund a v1 or v2. He’s coming out with a 1h30 review on YouTube comparing all my lenses to his reissue. I’ll let you know when the review is out. 

[hdmesa]

Leica CLA really brings this lens into the digital age. Just going off memory, this seems sharper in the center than my 35 Cron ASPH v1. Focusing is smooth. Rangefinder alignment is perfect at the infinity hard stop. Time to get out and shoot.

Perfect lens on the M6. Feels at home on the SL2-S, too. This lens is much sharper than I expected at distances below 0.7m using the macro adapter.

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[lct]

15 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

this seems sharper in the center than my 35 Cron ASPH v1.

Interesting indeed. My German-made 35/2 v4 has been recently CLA'd and 6-bit coded but my 35/2 asph v1 looks sharper at full aperture. Mandler vs Karbe (or pre-Karbe) i would think but i never did side-by-side comparos TBH. 

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[rtai]

That photo above tells why I never like the V4. See how much lower the tab is compared to the Asph? I just didn’t like the handling. The king of handling and also a good deal is the under appreciated v3. 

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Interesting indeed. My German-made 35/2 v4 has been recently CLA'd and 6-bit coded but my 35/2 asph v1 looks sharper at full aperture. Mandler vs Karbe (or pre-Karbe) i would think but i never did side-by-side comparos TBH. 

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My ASPH v1 was in perfect condition but probably would have benefitted optically from a CLA.

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[hdmesa]

11 minutes ago, rtai said:

That photo above tells why I never like the V4. See how much lower the tab is compared to the Asph? I just didn’t like the handling. The king of handling and also a good deal is the under appreciated v3. 

"King of Handling" would be current model 35 Voigtlanders with the giant focus tabs 🤫