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Is the king of bokeh lens also a sharp lens?

wolan

By wolan
in Leica M Lenses

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Erato
Erato

Agreed with a.noctilux's comment on the "sharp enough", and pgk's comment as well. FMHO, the upside of V4 is color rendering, and it's relatively compact while comparing with modern lenses. And th

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hdmesa

hdmesa

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11 hours ago, mediumformula said:

Nice.  How do you like it?  There was recently a 6-bit German copy recently purchased from Leica Miami on Ebay, so it must have just been coincidence.  

Leica Miami put a second one up for sale after I bought mine. It was not a mint copy like mine and was sold for a lower price.

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hdmesa

hdmesa

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11 hours ago, mediumformula said:

…How do you like it?…

Great lens. No complaints except for the crazy high price. Compact with great ergonomics considering the small size. It has modern sharpness but still has some character wide open. I have yet to send in my film to the lab to see if I like it for film shooting.

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lifeandmylens

lifeandmylens

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20 hours ago, mediumformula said:

Nice.  How do you like it?  There was recently a 6-bit German copy recently purchased from Leica Miami on Ebay, so it must have just been coincidence.  

That was mine.  Great lens!  Bought it but realized it was just a GAS purchase since I also have a Summicron 8 element and a 35 lux v2 pre asph.  Sold on FM.

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mediumformula

mediumformula

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13 minutes ago, lifeandmylens said:

I did a few comparisons here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1814892

 

Interesting comparison.  The v4 had a little more contrast and was a bit sharper in detail to my eyes, and has better flair control.  Also it seems to be letting in a about a half stop more light at f2 than the v1.  Based on those tests, I think I would have personally kept the v4!

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Alberti

Alberti

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Posted (edited)

I have used the V4 twice as much as the V1 on the M10-R . .

V4 has great centre sharpness, wide open, but corners or mid-field tend to wobble a bit. It looks as if my copy (mine had a CLA in A'dam) has a slight tendency wide-open to have a front-focus in the corners, giving some softness and blur in the distance. Close up this disappears.

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But for sure V4 can capture monsters in all their flying colors - I like it for portraits, even at 1/90:

But then,

all those fads about the V4 are left behind in the world of the V1. It has an evenness in the field I like. The corners also have some focus shift - to the back. . . Mine had a CLA in Wetzlar. They are great.

Of course I have 35mm Summicron pictures with the bokeh rings. But that is another story. What I generally like is a 3D effect. [- all these pictures M10-R]

 

 

Edited by Alberti
added 'Summicron'
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lct

lct

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All pre-asph 35/2 Summicrons have soft corners at f/2 AFAIK. For sharper results there, better choose a Summicron 35/2 asph. The center of the frame can be decently sharp though. Here with v4 at f/2, FF and crop.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-352-v4/i-L2rDfxJ/0/56494767/X4/M1020064_sips-X4.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-Leica-352-v4/i-g69phKN/0/9e07aa2f/X4/M1020064_crop-X4.jpg

 

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hdmesa

hdmesa

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3 hours ago, lct said:

All pre-asph 35/2 Summicrons have soft corners at f/2 AFAIK. For sharper results there, better choose a Summicron 35/2 asph...

The ASPH suffers some sharpness loss in the midframe (on the diagonal between center and corners) at f/2, which to me is worse than soft corners. I prefer the natural sharpness falloff from the center that I get from my v4 at f/2. If someone wants sharpness across the frame at f/2, the 35 APO from Voigtlander or Leica would be a more logical alternative.

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lct

lct

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18 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

The ASPH suffers some sharpness loss in the midframe (on the diagonal between center and corners) at f/2 [...]

I don't recall this on my asph v1 from 2010. Would you have a picture showing this loss by chance?

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hdmesa

hdmesa

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1 hour ago, lct said:

I don't recall this on my asph v1 from 2010. Would you have a picture showing this loss by chance?

They were throw-away shots, and I've long since deleted them. If you get a chance, see if you see the same results – I believe this lens is known for softer midframe at f/2. To test, keep the same composition (tripod), focus center and take a shot, then put the focus point midway between center and the corner, focus there and take another shot, then repeat for the corner. The center and corner should be similar in sharpness, but the midframe will be softer.

Edit: found one example I did save after all: 35 ASPH v1 at f/2 on the SL2-S at about 1.5m distance. Screenshots below from C1. First image is to show placement of focus point, which was on the thermometer device on the coffee table.

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Left image = center / Right image = midframe

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lct

lct

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I must have done tests like this in the past. I'll try to retrieve them but all in all my asph v1 is sharper at f/2 than both my German and Canadian v4. It has also less focus shift, curiously enough.

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lct

lct

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17 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Edit: found one example I did save after all: 35 ASPH v1 at f/2 on the SL2-S at about 1.5m distance. Screenshots below from C1. First image is to show placement of focus point, which was on the thermometer device on the coffee table.

I have no experience with SL cameras but i did not notice this issue on my M cameras so far. The snap below shows rather well what my 35/2 asph v1 can do at f/2 on the M240.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M240-Summicron-352-asph-v1/i-MhpMcQQ/0/4ef9ff93/X4/M2401779_sips-X4.jpg

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hdmesa

hdmesa

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18 hours ago, lct said:

I must have done tests like this in the past. I'll try to retrieve them but all in all my asph v1 is sharper at f/2 than both my German and Canadian v4. It has also less focus shift, curiously enough.

Yes, my ASPH v1 was definitely sharp at f/2, it was just less sharp when focusing on a subject in the midframe versus the center. If you have a central subject, this isn't much of an issue. But if you put the subject's head in the midframe, their eyes may not be as sharp as you would like when focused there. But overall, the ASPH was a great lens while I had it since I shot it mostly on film stopped down from f/5.6 to f/11. Really great look on film with regard to contrast and sharpness.

1 hour ago, lct said:

I have no experience with SL cameras but i did not notice this issue on my M cameras so far. The snap below shows rather well what my 35/2 asph v1 can do at f/2 on the M240.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M240-Summicron-352-asph-v1/i-MhpMcQQ/0/4ef9ff93/X4/M2401779_sips-X4.jpg

Here's a test showing midframe vs center on the ASPH: https://jacktaka.com/leica-35mm-f2:

Although the Summicron is razor-sharp in the center, it degrades significantly in the edges and even mid-frame. This is disappointing as the mid-frame is where your subject is placed when using the rule of thirds. At f/2, these subjects will appear somewhat unsharp.

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lct

lct

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I have never seen a 35/2 lens as sharp at the center as at edges or corners so far, especially @ f/2. I have no experience with 35mm apo lenses though, perhaps they can do that, i have no idea. What is sure is my Summicron asph v1 is the sharper lens there compared to my v4 copies. It has less character though and i prefer the gentler rendition of v4 on portraits but this is another story.

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mediumformula

mediumformula

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M11M with German v4 (1990) at close focus (.70 meter).  JPEG from Fotos with minor adjustments for exposure and shadows.  I probably shot this at f4.

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mediumformula

mediumformula

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JPEG from Fotos.  Slight boost in shadow detaiil.  Probably shot around f8 or 11.  M11M with German v4 (1990)

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