Is the king of bokeh lens also a sharp lens?

[derleicaman]

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2 hours ago, Steven said:

This is exactly the conclusion I came to, two years ago, when I owned both lens. It made no sense to own both. One reason I reconsidered briefly the V4 is because one thing I learned after 3 years with the pre asph is that it can be a bit of a diva. You can have some really unexpected results sometimes, and I understand from forum members' testimonials that the v4 is very consistent. 

That being said, since I use my pre asps without hoods, I don't think I would notice and an compactness upgrade between the two!

Thanks for your contribution Graham, you know I love your photography, so it means a lot. 

I do see a reason to have both lenses. One reason why I still have the Summilux is that my dad bought it for me back in 1972, after we attended the Leica School in Wetzlar. So sentimental reason one. I used it on a regular basis until I got the 35/1.4 ASPH in 1992, purchased during Photokina in Cologne. Also with my dad. About two years ago, I pulled the old Summilux pre-Asph lens out and started playing with it again. I was surprised at the dual nature of the lens which I had never paid too much attention to back in film days. Must be something about using a digital M. You play with your old lenses more, and through the instant feedback of the high res screen of the M10, you notice things with new eyes. I really started to see the "dual nature" of my old friend wide open and stopped down. This struck me so much, that I mentioned it to Stefan Daniel on a phone call we had during Covid. Stefan laughed and said, "You guessed what the next new Retro Leica lens would be!" What a minute, what? He said the next new lens would be the Steel Rim. Wow! Just a fun little story!

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[lct]

34 minutes ago, rcusick said:

Color is a bit more saturated and with a bit more contrast in the v4 Cron than pre-apsh due to more modern coatings.  Note: the steel rim reissue renders colors more like a contemporary lens.  The v4 is much more like r lenses from the 80's / min nineties.

+1. There is almost one generation difference in the design of those lenses (1961-1979). When the 35/2 v4 was launched (been there) it was considered a modern lens compared to the Summilux which had less contrast and more flare with less saturated colors. This comparison was fair concerning the 35/1.4 v1, but less so concerning the 35/1.4 v2 which has more contrast and saturation. Reason why it is not always easy to recognize them actually. All in all, as far as my German-made copies are concerned, the 35/1.4 v2 has more glow, more coma and more flare than the 35/2 v4 but it has, for these very reasons, more character than the latter. Both keepers IMHO.

[a.noctilux]

23 hours ago, farnz said:

I like this picture very much, Arnaud, for the way it portrays the gorgeous light on the river wall, and the question(s) posed by the gentleman in black.

Might I humbly offer a title?  "In Seine."

Pete.

Thanks a lot Pete.

Of course you can title it as you want.

When I took the picture, so long ago, as free wanderer, the Seine's flood interested me and the gentleman in black was there to complete the Seine/scene so well ...

I saw kind of "meditation" myself.

[hdmesa]

On 5/10/2023 at 7:19 AM, Steven said:

...One reason I reconsidered briefly the V4 is because one thing I learned after 3 years with the pre asph is that it can be a bit of a diva. You can have some really unexpected results sometimes, and I understand from forum members' testimonials that the v4 is very consistent...

I have a v4 Germany arriving tomorrow from Leica Miami. It's had a Leica CLA and 6-bit coding added. I'm hoping it will serve as a slightly more compact alternative to the ASPH v1 I sold, which was great on film but "meh" on digital. I'm hoping the v4 can can hold similar color and contrast to the ASPH but have a little bit more character wide open. I recently tried the Steel Rim reissue – ok on digital, but stopped down it didn't have that certain something the ASPH did on film.

[hdmesa]

12 minutes ago, Steven said:

The steel rim reissue is a disaster. The original v1 or v2 Summilux is a gem. My number one leica lens of all times. I own over ten copies. 
 

I recently repurchased a few KOBs to give them another try. I think it will meet your demands. A good mix of « modern » rendering and character. silver copies are extremely well built and a pleasure to carry all day.  

My biggest gripe with the Steel Rim reissue is they changed the external lens profile to accommodate the 46mm filter threads. It's not even the same lens externally. It's ludicrous that they felt it was ok to make the lens fatter but not update the minimum focusing distance to 0.7m. And I feel like the modern coatings are a problem with this lens. These coatings actually work well with the 28 Summaron reissue, but the Steel Rim reissue should have been single coated.

If the KOBs don't end up working for you, there's always the ASPH. If you try the ASPH, the v1 in silver is what I'd recommend since it's brass and feels very high quality.

[caloosajo]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I have a v4 Germany arriving tomorrow from Leica Miami. It's had a Leica CLA and 6-bit coding added. I'm hoping it will serve as a slightly more compact alternative to the ASPH v1 I sold, which was great on film but "meh" on digital. I'm hoping the v4 can can hold similar color and contrast to the ASPH but have a little bit more character wide open. I recently tried the Steel Rim reissue – ok on digital, but stopped down it didn't have that certain something the ASPH did on film.

Pretty sure that’s the one I sold to them earlier this year. Rest assured I was a good steward of that lens, and very much enjoyed it on M10, M10M, and MP with the usual suspects of Tri-X, HP5 @800, and Portra 400. Great contrast stopped down f4 and beyond, and a soothingly modest character wide open. Maybe a whiff of cyan bias for the few frames I used it with the M11, but was not at all a factor in my decision to say goodbye.

Just ended up reaching for the Lux Pre-ASPH v2 Wetzlar more often to scratch the vintage/character itch, and the FLE V1 is my “ride or die” haha.

Congrats and enjoy, @hdmesa!

[hdmesa]

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22 minutes ago, caloosajo said:

Pretty sure that’s the one I sold to them earlier this year. Rest assured I was a good steward of that lens, and very much enjoyed it on M10, M10M, and MP with the usual suspects of Tri-X, HP5 @800, and Portra 400. Great contrast stopped down f4 and beyond, and a soothingly modest character wide open. Maybe a whiff of cyan bias for the few frames I used it with the M11, but was not at all a factor in my decision to say goodbye.

Just ended up reaching for the Lux Pre-ASPH v2 Wetzlar more often to scratch the vintage/character itch, and the FLE V1 is my “ride or die” haha.

Congrats and enjoy, @hdmesa!

Thanks! Josh told me it took about 5 months for the CLA + 6-bit code service, so that sounds about right for the timeline. I promise to take excellent care of it. I'll be shooting it with Ektachrome 100, CineStill BwXX/800T, and T-Max 100/400/3200. I may have a roll or two of Portra 400 left floating around as well. For digital, I'll be using it with the SL2-S (and possibly an M11M in the near future if all the stars align just right).

I loved the Lux v2, and one day I hope to have another copy. I'm about to the point where I want to get rid of my 28 and 50 only shoot 35/40/75, which seem to be the best focal lengths for me.

[BigBabyEarl]

8 hours ago, Steven said:

The steel rim reissue is a disaster. The original v1 or v2 Summilux is a gem. My number one leica lens of all times. I own over ten copies. 
 

I recently repurchased a few KOBs to give them another try. I think it will meet your demands. A good mix of « modern » rendering and character. silver copies are extremely well built and a pleasure to carry all day.  

Can you elaborate on why you feel the SR is a disaster? I just ordered one 😂

[hdmesa]

Leica CLA really brings this lens into the digital age. Just going off memory, this seems sharper in the center than my 35 Cron ASPH v1. Focusing is smooth. Rangefinder alignment is perfect at the infinity hard stop. Time to get out and shoot.

Perfect lens on the M6. Feels at home on the SL2-S, too. This lens is much sharper than I expected at distances below 0.7m using the macro adapter.

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[lct]

15 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

this seems sharper in the center than my 35 Cron ASPH v1.

Interesting indeed. My German-made 35/2 v4 has been recently CLA'd and 6-bit coded but my 35/2 asph v1 looks sharper at full aperture. Mandler vs Karbe (or pre-Karbe) i would think but i never did side-by-side comparos TBH. 

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[rtai]

That photo above tells why I never like the V4. See how much lower the tab is compared to the Asph? I just didn’t like the handling. The king of handling and also a good deal is the under appreciated v3. 

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Interesting indeed. My German-made 35/2 v4 has been recently CLA'd and 6-bit coded but my 35/2 asph v1 looks sharper at full aperture. Mandler vs Karbe (or pre-Karbe) i would think but i never did side-by-side comparos TBH. 

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My ASPH v1 was in perfect condition but probably would have benefitted optically from a CLA.

[hdmesa]

11 minutes ago, rtai said:

That photo above tells why I never like the V4. See how much lower the tab is compared to the Asph? I just didn’t like the handling. The king of handling and also a good deal is the under appreciated v3. 

"King of Handling" would be current model 35 Voigtlanders with the giant focus tabs 🤫

[a.noctilux]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

"King of Handling" would be current model 35 Voigtlanders with the giant focus tabs 🤫

My king of nothing is just a lens to use

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compact, light to carry and good enough results.

 

As side note, I had more than a dozen of units of 35mm Summicron so called "KOB", decades ago,

I bought them to learn ( kind of statistic "rendering" ) when they were cheap.

I gave up because the "renderings" are so different from lens to lens that I understood why some are fond of them but some users found them as "soso".

Neither one was bad lens though, just stiil keep two (one Wetzlar and one "Canada" 1913-1983) to use from time to time.

Maybe the variations were common by then.

[lct]

5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

As side note, I had more than a dozen of units of 35mm Summicron so called "KOB", decades ago,

I bought them to learn ( kind of statistic "rendering" ) when they were cheap.

I gave up because the "renderings" are so different from lens to lens that I understood why some are fond of them but some users found them as "soso".

Both my early Canadian and later German 35/2 v4 have the same optical formula and the same coating AFAIK. Only differences are plastic vs metal parts and convex vs concave focus tabs. As far as my copies are concerned, the rendering of both lenses looks identical. I did not do side-by-side comparos though. 

[rcusick]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Interesting, I did not find the 35 Steel Rim re-issue too glowy at all (see photo wide open). My 35 pre-asph lux was glowing much more.

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Same here.  No worse than my previous two copies of the pre Apsh v2

[hdmesa]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Interesting, I did not find the 35 Steel Rim re-issue too glowy at all (see photo wide open). My 35 pre-asph lux was glowing much more.

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Low contrast light won't provoke much glow regardless of which 35 Lux pre-ASPH version we're talking about.

Reissue at f/1.4 on BwXX:

53 minutes ago, rcusick said:

Same here.  No worse than my previous two copies of the pre Apsh v2

As was mentioned, if your v2 is glowing more than your reissue at f/1.4, it may need a CLA. All these old lenses have haze even if you can't observe it using the typical method of shining an LED light through the opposite end of the lens. CLA completely changed my v2, and the glass looked perfect to begin with. But if you like how your v2 renders, then don't CLA it.

v2 at f/1.4 (CLA) on the M11 (click on each or they will look soft):

Have to crop in to see the glow:

[lct]

Interesting comparisons thank you. How does the reissue behave as regards coma?

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[rcusick]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Low contrast light won't provoke much glow regardless of which 35 Lux pre-ASPH version we're talking about.

Reissue at f/1.4 on BwXX:

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As was mentioned, if your v2 is glowing more than your reissue at f/1.4, it may need a CLA. All these old lenses have haze even if you can't observe it using the typical method of shining an LED light through the opposite end of the lens. CLA completely changed my v2, and the glass looked perfect to begin with. But if you like how your v2 renders, then don't CLA it.

v2 at f/1.4 (CLA) on the M11 (click on each or they will look soft):

Have to crop in to see the glow:

See coma in my post.  My point is that the reissue is no worse than classic glass. 

[mediumformula]

On 6/1/2023 at 6:04 PM, hdmesa said:

I have a v4 Germany arriving tomorrow from Leica Miami. It's had a Leica CLA and 6-bit coding added. I'm hoping it will serve as a slightly more compact alternative to the ASPH v1 I sold, which was great on film but "meh" on digital. I'm hoping the v4 can can hold similar color and contrast to the ASPH but have a little bit more character wide open. I recently tried the Steel Rim reissue – ok on digital, but stopped down it didn't have that certain something the ASPH did on film.

Did you recently have this listed on Ebay?  If so, was curious as to why you were selling it.  I no longer see it listed or sold.