Is the king of bokeh lens also a sharp lens?

[jaapv]

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13 minutes ago, lct said:

I was not interested by this offer sorry but the lens of my link is less expensive and the dealer is very serious as well but it's up to you....

But the price is without VAT...

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[lct]

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But the price is without VAT...

Ah yes i did not notice that sorry.

[derleicaman]

7 hours ago, Steven said:

What do you mean !! It’s with box and everything. Refer to my post #43. 
anywyay I just wrote to him. He sold it this week to a buyer outside Europe for 4950. 
he said he supposed to received another one next. We ll see. 

Is the seller Hans P? If so, I can vouch for him 100%. I can vouch for Jo Geier as well.

[pgk]

I've bought from Schouten without problem. He was helpful. He seems to have some very good items but prices them accordingly.

[pgk]

It was in 2013 and I bought my 35mm Summilux (pre-aspheric) from him. I even traded in an R lens via international mail and everything went smoothly.

Edited January 23, 2021 by pgk

[plasticman]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

Marco Schouten, established seller recommended by main forum members. I also like that now you can do a video call on WhatsApp to see the lenses. He’s also available until late at night which is when I usually go crazy with lens purchases 😂 

I’ve bought several lenses from Marco Schouten - not the cheapest, but guaranteed quality.

[lct]

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3 hours ago, Steven said:

It looks very dirty on the sides. Lots of usage marks. I’d rather pay 300 more and have one like new. 

If Jo Geier says it is "In near mint condition" i would tend to trust him personally but again it's up to you

[Ray Vonn]

It is sharp, although in my experience you do need some time to get familiar with how to properly use it. Then you’ll discover that it’s general rendering is its forte. For me it’s close to ‘if I only had one lens’ status.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Steven said:

@derleicaman Bill, I know you enjoy a great deal your V4, and I know you also love your Summilux Pre Asph. Could you tell us more about how they compare at F2 and beyond ? Is it really worth owning both, do they complement each other ? 

The pre asph is my most used 35, an all time favorite. It's size is addictive. While I love its rendering wide open and closed down on digital, I use 1.4 less on film. And closed down, I'm starting to get a bit bored by it's lack of contrast and saturation. As an alternative, I've been using the Nokton 35 1.4 closed down, and it gives me an enjoyable look, but I like to shoot Leica. This is why I've had the V4 on my mind lately, but I wonder if I need it when I have a pre asph. 

@Steven, I thought you said the v4 was crap? Sounds like you are going full circle, which you recommended against. Remember, shoot more and less GAS! But you seem lost on living the ethos yourself 😉

[MLG]

Am 20.1.2021 um 13:44 schrieb a.noctilux:

KOB is overrated, anyway, but had push the price up many folds...

Owned this lens ten years ago. Fully agree. Nice lens, but certainly not „magic“. Sharpness is okay for its period.

Edited May 9, 2023 by MLG

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Steven said:

Hey man, feeling a little bitter, aren't you? I shot 1000 rolls of films in the past twelve months, in over 25 different cities. I think I'm fine, thanks. 

A bit of context for the rest watching this. A couple months ago, when I took some time off from the forum, under some strange circumstances that I can't remember, but probably just out of kindness, I gave my whatssap number to Mads, after which he sent me way too many questions every single day, asking me over and over the same thing. After a lot of patience, and always answering to him politely, I advised him to keep his GAS under control and shoot a little more. After all, based on the photos he was sending me, all he seemed to photograph was his kitchen window. I did not mean to be rude, but I just gave him an advice that I once received myself on the forum and helped me a lot. Try, it's the only way to know. 

I'm not against GAS, and trying new stuff all the time. Otherwise, I would not come to a forum to discuss gear with fellow enthusiasts. I did not write 5000 posts if I don't like to try lenses, like the rest here. 

I believe that I contributed a lot to this forum, and one thing I learned is that the only way to know what you really like is to go out to shoot. That's the only way you can know if something works for you. I also learned that tastes change, and while I love the pre asph, I'm kind of bored and feeling like something different, at least temporarily. So I'm not going in circle Mads, I'm continuing on a straight line up. 

As for the V4, as you can see on other threads of this forum, I owned it before and coud not see why people love it so much. I used it mainly on digital and it felt a bit plane. But I've been studying film images of it recently and I think it could be worth revisiting, so if you could leave me to my conversation with Bill, who's actually extremely knowledgable and always willing to share... unlike you, with your 11 posts on the forum, out of which at least one was utterly useless and bitter. It really seems like you prefer to take than to give. 

Man, you are a piece of work. I NEVER EVER “shot a kitchen window”, I only shoot images of my family and people close to me. At least be honest.

You might not like my images, but dont lie here…

You daily sent my images on WhatsApp of new gear, wanting me to comment. Saying this was the next great thing!

You went on LUF from asking what is “focus shift” in 2020 to being the know all Daddy of Leica in 2 years - in your own self image. Get over yourself.

Just because you own rare Leica lenses  and bodies and shoot 1000s of film rolls a year, doesn’t make you any more of a photog, than the rest of the members here - including me, thank you very much.

Travelling to remote areas of the world and still not knowing how to shoot 28mm well, doesn’t get rectified by praising the rendering of 28 Summaron. It’s still a boring image, mate, even shot on film!

Sorry, I dont have you wallet or obsession - only the sensibility to say: “That if it walks like a duck and quarks like a duck … “

All the very best,

Mads

[lct]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

I didn't keep my silver copy for long enough to be able to really compare it to the Summilux 35 V1/V2. Can anyone that own both share their opinion with me ?

Difficult to tell a clear winner but as far as sharpness is concerned, the 35/2 v4 has perhaps a bit more acutance than the 35/1.4 v2 which looks more classic from this viewpoint. Both f/2 on M11 below.

35/1.4 v2 at f/2 (FF):

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35/1.4 v2 at f/2 (crop):

 

35/2 v4 at f/2 (FF):

 

35/2 v4 at f/2 (crop):

 

[rcusick]

Color and contrast are nice / classic.  Sharpness is equivalent to 35mm summilux pre apsh.  I found m10 and m10r render much better than m11 imho.  I ended up selling it. 
 

m10. 

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[otto.f]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

Summicron 35 iv:

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APO Summicron 35:

 

 

You can always pixel peep of course but in general use, sharpness was not the main reason that I stepped over from the iv to the APO. 

But for cropping the APO is more appropriate. The colors of the iv are much more neutral, the APO can be corrected easily mostly.

Edited May 10, 2023 by otto.f

[grahamc]

13 hours ago, Steven said:

Revisiting photos from this lens, it does seem to bring out pleasant colours on Portra. 

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It's weird, when I shoot the 35:2 v4 I always feel a little underwhelmed .. BUT as you have done here I find myself coming back to the images a long time later and finding that they are really nice.  I'm unsure how to articulate that properly but perhaps it does what it does extremely well !  

To your questions, my Summilux is sharper.  The KOB has less character so I get less of a 'wow' appreciation from it when I see the images but the colours are always beautiful, and as above it is just extremely consistent, quick and light .  I don't think I appreciated these qualities enough for a long time so I overlooked it.  There are times when I appreciate the light weight and size versus the 35:1.4v2 which I only use with the hood.

FWIW, when using crons I have started using my v4 KOB on film and the v2 or 8e on digital.  The film takes the edge off the v4 (or gives it a bit more character, let's say) and the earlier crons take the edge off the digital sensor .  Works for me lately and they are all similar enough to give a feeling of consistency this way, I believe.  

Edited May 10, 2023 by grahamc

[grahamc]

14 hours ago, Steven said:

Could you tell us more about how they compare at F2 and beyond ? Is it really worth owning both, do they complement each other ? 

 

I recently shot half a roll at F2 with the 35:1.4v2 and half a roll with the KOB as I was wondering the same thing. It was B&W, but I can confirm the KOB has more contrast for sure

Colour reproduction I guess a touch more saturated but the KOB does have pastel tones (one of it's strengths) so it's also not super saturated IMO

The side by sides showed for me at least more punch in the KOB but unsurprisingly a nicer character in the Summilux .  Despite these differences, unless I specifically want the nice character of the 35:1.4 the main reason I pick up one or the other comes down simply to size (as I'm a hood user wit the Summilux and not with the KOB).   Short story is they do more or less the same thing but the Cron can't do the lux !

Whether or not they can co-exist I can only speak from experience that there Lux is my favourite lens but I just can't sell the KOB - it's too convenient and "dependable" (decide for yourself whether that is an exciting attribute 😂)  

👍

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by grahamc

[a.noctilux]

let's see how this lens or "1.4" render in Kodachrome

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some decades ago,

still "fresh" (for me of course)

[farnz]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

let's see how this lens or "1.4" render in Kodachrome

I like this picture very much, Arnaud, for the way it portrays the gorgeous light on the river wall, and the question(s) posed by the gentleman in black.

Might I humbly offer a title?  "In Seine."

Pete.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[rcusick]

8 hours ago, Steven said:

Thank you so much. Based on your post, I still don't see a reason to own both, but I know well enough that real life, long term shooting is the only thing that can really answer that. 

By the way, sharpness is not really my concern. I like the soft look of my pre asph. It's the color that I'm getting a little bored of lately. 

Color is a bit more saturated and with a bit more contrast in the v4 Cron than pre-apsh due to more modern coatings.  Note: the steel rim reissue renders colors more like a contemporary lens.  The v4 is much more like r lenses from the 80's / min nineties.

[derleicaman]

20 hours ago, Steven said:

@derleicaman Bill, I know you enjoy a great deal your V4, and I know you also love your Summilux Pre Asph. Could you tell us more about how they compare at F2 and beyond ? Is it really worth owning both, do they complement each other ? 

The pre asph is my most used 35, an all time favorite. It's size is addictive. While I love its rendering wide open and closed down on digital, I use 1.4 less on film. And closed down, I'm starting to get a bit bored by it's lack of contrast and saturation. As an alternative, I've been using the Nokton 35 1.4 closed down, and it gives me an enjoyable look, but I like to shoot Leica. This is why I've had the V4 on my mind lately, but I wonder if I need it when I have a pre asph. 

Hello Steven,

Sorry to get back to you late on this. Believe it or not, I never used the v4 when I was shooting film. Simple reason was, I didn't own one then! I always used my 35/1.4 pre-Asph, and then my 35/1.4 ASPH in film days, which is the best 35 I have ever used. This was with color neg and Kodachrome, and my constant companion along with my 1984 Photokina M6.

I acquired the first 35/2 v4 Canadian from one of my old customers who had purchased it from me back in the 80's, along with his M6. He also had a 21/2.8 Elmarit, 90/2.8 Skinny Tele-Elmarit and 50/2 v4. I bought the entire package, and decided to treat myself by keeping the 35/2 v4 after selling off the rest. The lens was great, but had a bit of the over-torquing, alignment issue with the optical cell and the mount. I had an opportunity to trade for a Wetzlar version that had been serviced at Leica Wetzlar and jumped on it. Because of its improved costruction, the Wetzlar version is a big improvement, even though it is the same lens optically as the Canadian version. I never have to worry about over torquing the mount when mounting or dismounting the lens as I did with the Canadian version.

What I like most about the lens is that it is very happy with either my M10-P and M10-M, giving excellent images both wide open and stopped down. It is also a very compact package, which is the main reason why I have stopped using the 35/1.4 ASPH as my daily carry. It is just a bit bulky, and the hood on it drives me nuts. For comparison I also have a 35/2 v2 Wetzlar, a 35/2.8 Summaron, and a 35/2 Summicron ASPH. I prefer the v4 KOB to all of them for one reason or another.

I hope this helps.