M9reno Posted January 19, 2021 Share #21 Posted January 19, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I wanted an M10-D as soon as I tried one at Leica Mayfair in November 2018. Surprisingly, there was one available in the store at the time, but I held back. I just couldn’t impulse-buy something like that at the time. Just three months later, in February 2019, I impulse-bought one at Leica Mayfair. But I returned it the next day because it had a serious problem with the metering display, faulty diodes, out of the box - a bad experience, which led to my venting and starting a thread about that at the time. There was a lot else going on then personally (death in the family) and I settled for a refund. I did not get a replacement. Some months ago, in October 2020, evidently still wanting the camera, I politely wrote to Santa asking for one. By this point the camera had been discontinued, but my wife found a copy somewhere in London and put it under the Christmas tree. At this point I should clarify: I own far too much Leica gear and have learned to live with the GAS, rather than fight it. My feelings about my M10-D, owned since Christmas: unambiguously positive. Not using a screen on a digital camera is enjoyable and easy to get used to. I realise that, at least for much of the time, and for most of my own purposes, screens are a distraction. I admit that I would not have been as cavalier about buying a screen-less digital Leica if I did not also own screened counterparts (especially the versatile M240, a swiss-army knife of a Leica M, if there was ever one) to fall back upon, whenever the need is there for a screen. And there is sometimes a need. I don’t think shooting an M10-D is remotely like shooting film. The screen-less experience is vaguely similar, but the handling, capabilities (6400+ ISO etc), and output of course vastly different. It is a beautiful camera and very enjoyable to use. A few weeks ago, I noticed some artefacts when pulling shadows (more like pitch-black areas) aggressively at very high ISO, the so-called “mysterious stains” of this thread, I assume normal user-error and nothing to worry about. Finally, I have found the following review interesting: https://www.kaisernchen.com/post/leica-m10-d-diary 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 Hi M9reno, Take a look here Do you like you M10-D?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lb1800 Posted January 19, 2021 Share #22 Posted January 19, 2021 I very much enjoy my M10-D but it is such an illogical purchase that I find it quite hard to justify (even to myself). Unlike stripped down sports cars, in which heavy luxuries get taken out to improve the power to weight ratio, there is no photographic benefit in losing the screen on the M10-D. The only benefits I can think of are ergonomic...my thumb lands on the back leather where a screen would be so my grip is fractionally improved....and the "winder" thumb rest is very useful (for me) and avoids the need for a thumbs-up. Other than those small plusses, which don't really compensate for the loss of live view and the possibility to chimp a little, the closest I can come to justifying it is to say it is a mindset thing. I think of my M10-D as an M7 with a digital back. I can pretend I am using an analogue camera. And I do love using it. It's an object of desire. But a big part of my hobby is using the gear. Going out and playing with a camera is as important a part for me as the final photo. If I was a pro, I would probably shoot an SL2....but if I somehow found myself shooting an M as a pro I am sure it would be one with a screen. I'm very happy with my D. I do miss live view occasionally ...but not so much that I regret the purchase. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2021 Share #23 Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, lb1800 said: .........................I'm very happy with my D. I do miss live view occasionally ...but not so much that I regret the purchase. Me too........I'm happy that I bought a M10-D, like the MM9 I consider this camera , this M10-D, as a "keeper". However like the MM9 my M10-D has not been without it's problems or it's vacations back to the "Mother Ship" at Wetzlar, both of them have been back there a number of times. First the M10-D seized up too often the fault initially blamed on faulty or incompatible SD cards but after much experiment back to Wetzlar it went and the problem with interior electronics was diagnosed and solved. Then came shutter problems, so back to Wetzlar. Then a dirty sensor that refused to respond to my cleaning efforts and not wanting to be too aggressive I sent it "home" to "Mother". This year I thought the rangefinder was out of alignment but back at Wetzlar once again it was found to be the sensor shifting for reasons best known to itself, I received the camera back in good time after every visit to Leica Service, no complaints with their attentions only thanks. None of this has paled my liking for the M10-D, ( same with the MM with its four sensor swaps and a shutter wind problem ), both M's are "keepers" for me and supplement very nicely other cameras in my kit. I wouldn't want to be without either of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted January 19, 2021 Share #24 Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) I still like it and see no reason to change to a different M10. Never had any of the reported issues. I wonder how many were sold. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 19, 2021 by MRJohn added photo 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/317108-do-you-like-you-m10-d/?do=findComment&comment=4121623'>More sharing options...
chasdfg Posted January 20, 2021 Share #25 Posted January 20, 2021 14 hours ago, Steven said: Thank you for this very useful testimony. Although I'd be curious to, even if I guessed it, your opinion on the camera after hesitating, lusting, then owning it. Thanks also for the thread. I had actually read them all carefully, and I started a new one because I wanted some "2021" feelings from users. I may also add this fantastics thread to the ones you recommended. Bottom line is long-term, I try (tried?) to keep the number of digital camera bodies to a minimum. I only shoot 1 lens and 1 camera at a time and want to max out my expenditure on a digital body. I hesitated because I was caught in two minds - I wanted an upgrade on the M240 and felt like the M10P would be better and more all rounded as an only camera. But I also felt the M10D would teach me more as a photographer. In the end after that episode I got an M10M and used the SL/SL2/Sigma FP as my colour cam but didn't enjoy the SL/SL2/FP colour cam experience. I always wanted the M10D during this time but it was only after using the SL/SL2/FP as a "backup"/colour cam did I realise the only colour cam I wanted to shoot with was an M. I sold the SL/SL2/FP and wanted to shoot the M10M for a year as my only camera, but then a good deal on the M10D came up... I always had an itch to scratch and if I had another colour camera I'd probably be annoyed with myself if I got the M10D because of the duplication of colour cameras. That's why I never got it until I sold everything else but the M10M (less overlap -> B&W vs colour, resolution, high ISO performance, LCD vs none). If I had a colour camera/M I'd still be lusting for it if I didn't get one though, but not enough to make me buy one cause I'm too practical to own duplicate cameras (or a skint, depends how you see it). Owning the M10M and M10D is an excuse that my lineup can cater for two bodies as otherwise I don't shoot enough to otherwise justify owning more than one. I tell myself I can use these 2 cameras Now that I have it, I'm settled. It was the final piece to the jigsaw of my camera gear lineup and it has delivered everything I want in a colour camera. You're not really chasing resolution, high iso or dynamic range with this camera anyway. It has taught me to bring the camera to my eye, compose and shoot better. I treat it like a film camera in the sense I'm not spraying pictures, but I acknowledge the medium is different and it is a different tool. If you want the experience of shooting a film M, shoot a film M. This said, on most days when I use the M10D, I come back home having taken a handful of pictures. With a camera with LCD, e.g. my M10M, I can easily shoot an equivalent of half a roll to a roll of film in one outing (or more, depends what I'm doing) - I think it has to do with chimping or checking your pics on the spot, which has its pros and cons and is just a different experience but one not better than the other. LCD and digital do go hand-in-hand, as does digital going hand-in-hand processing in the computer with more immediacy. The M10D just forgoes the LCD aspect. It's not a fake film M per se. As others have mentioned my only gripe is the power button is not where it is on other digital Ms. There's a semi workaround as suggested by others as well, which is just leaving it on auto-power off at 2 mins and just letting it sleep and never having to touch that wheel (I only turn it off when I'm swapping batteries just for good measure, but I'm quite sure the camera itself is sleeping/off so should be ok to do so if I didn't. Someone can correct me on this). The lack of a fuller Fotos App menu is not a deal breaker. It's frustrating, as can be the use of the EVF (doesn't shut off and GPS is on) but I don't use the EVF. It is absolutely possible that an M11D will come out with an electronic shutter with little rolling shutter (what a dream! and blasphemy for the purists?), SL2-S high ISO, better dynamic range, same body profile, power switch at the shutter button, better WIFI, better menus in FOTOS, a better viewfinder (possible? but not necessary). It's technology and things will always improve. But how much of the above do you need and how long are you willing to wait? If say the M11 comes out late this year, the P and D versions 1.5 to 2 years later, that's 2 to 3 years more of waiting. In reality an electronic shutter is nice but from my experience with the Sigma FP it does ruin the tactile experience of shooting. I rarely ever shoot above ISO6400 (and with this camera I don't shoot from the hip so much, which means more stability as I bring the camera to my eye more and being able to handhold slower shutter speeds), the files are plenty malleable for me. For a non-pro like me, if I can't get good shots with the M10D, no camera will save me (though my M10M is in reserve). You're buying the idea of a screen-less digital camera. If my experience is anything to go by, this is a camera you either lust for or don't. And if you lust for one don't get one, you will lust and lust until the day you succumb and then you will wonder why you didn't get it all that while ago. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share #26 Posted January 20, 2021 18 hours ago, MRJohn said: I still like it and see no reason to change to a different M10. Never had any of the reported issues. I wonder how many were sold. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! WHAT A SHOT Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share #27 Posted January 20, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've had my new M10D for about three hours. My first impressions are: - The design is beautiful. It's the most gorgeous and coolest looking digital M for sure. - The lack of screen makes it feel thiner. It is so much more enjoyable to touch it and hold it without screen. - The Fotos app seems slow but I don't see myself using it too much so I see it as a convenience option for emergencies. - A lot of people have complain about the power wheel moving on its on. Mine is very sturdy and I think it will be impossible that the camera will turn on or switch to wifi by accident. - I obviously havent missed the screen yet, and I'm very happy with it, but we're on honeymoon so that's expected. My biggest annoyances with it: - I like using the visoflex on some photowalks on my P. The fact that it doesn't turn off on the D is a huge issue for battery. I think it would have been amazing if it had a sensor to turn on when I approach my eye. Well, it does, but if it was activated on the D. - My other big issue is the fact I cannot manually set up my non coded lens. This is just stupid. If I could ask for one think on the Wishlist, it would be able to review the images on the visoflex. When you take a shot and it is on auto review, you could scroll with the thumb wheel and see previous photos, just to quickly check the exposure at least, and then I would never need a screen even in a professional context. Will let you know how I get on with it, but for now, since I plan to use my SL2S and its amazing viewfinder a lot more and for everything "serious" this year, I could definitely see the M10D become my most used, and maybe even my only M. 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poli Posted January 20, 2021 Share #28 Posted January 20, 2021 Good luck with you m10-d! It is such a joy to shoot digitally without the feeling of a screen on the rearside of the camera. Curious how you will start to like the thumb rest. I use it a lot Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share #29 Posted January 20, 2021 19 minutes ago, poli said: Good luck with you m10-d! It is such a joy to shoot digitally without the feeling of a screen on the rearside of the camera. Curious how you will start to like the thumb rest. I use it a lot So far, I think it looks cool and feel nice, and overall im happy its there for a change, but honestly, in comparison to the M10 optional thumb rest, I think the thumb rest feels better and works better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted January 20, 2021 Share #30 Posted January 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Steven said: WHAT A SHOT Thanks, was taken with the M10D and a 35 lux, and pure luck hanging out on a rock in Croatia when a couple of kids came by and jumped into the water. That's the "thrill" of the MD, you don't know until the evening what you got during the day 😉 I love this way of shooting, like with a film camera, delayed gratification. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted January 20, 2021 Share #31 Posted January 20, 2021 Btw, I use mine with a Luigi case, which very much prevents the power wheel from moving accidentally. - Makes it thicker and heavier, so not for everyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 21, 2021 Share #32 Posted January 21, 2021 But does it use a lot of battery power? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2021 Share #33 Posted January 21, 2021 4 hours ago, otto.f said: But does it use a lot of battery power? Do you mean in general? It uses less battery because there's no LCD, obviously, but the WiFi and EVF are battery killers. EVF because stupidly there's no way to select / turn off the GPS that's automatically turned on when the EVF is mounted. I wish Leica would update the firmware and make this a menu choice as it is with other M10's. The GPS function is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard, but presently you have no choice in the matter if you use the 020. I keep my M10-D turned on pretty much all the time with "sleep" set to 2 minutes. There's minimal battery drain if you set it like this, in fact often I forget to turn it off and can put it away leaving it "on" for days and only lose 5-10% of battery. What you have to be careful of is making sure that you don't accidentally turn the switch to WiFi, if you do that the battery will drain very quickly, a hour or less even at "sleep". As I so rarely use wifi I have my switch taped to the on position to make it harder the turn it to WiFi....That works, for me anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 21, 2021 Share #34 Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) I just meant the WiFi, but thanks!! Very clear now Edited January 21, 2021 by otto.f Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photon42 Posted January 21, 2021 Share #35 Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/20/2021 at 5:09 PM, Steven said: I've had my new M10D for about three hours. My first impressions are: [...] - My other big issue is the fact I cannot manually set up my non coded lens. This is just stupid. If I could ask for one think on the Wishlist, it would be able to review the images on the visoflex. When you take a shot and it is on auto review, you could scroll with the thumb wheel and see previous photos, just to quickly check the exposure at least, and then I would never need a screen even in a professional context. Will let you know how I get on with it, but for now, since I plan to use my SL2S and its amazing viewfinder a lot more and for everything "serious" this year, I could definitely see the M10D become my most used, and maybe even my only M. Maybe code the lenses, if they are < 35mm? I suggest you just don't think about the whole instant review anymore and use the thing as intended for a year or so. You will be surprised, how well humans can adapt to machines 😂. Don't be too impatient and too quick in judging it. I still like mine and while it is not my only camera (...), I have no plans of selling it. You have got an SL2S, I like to use a Z7 for the "other stuff". The M10D is a beauty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share #36 Posted January 21, 2021 Quick update: The M10D is gorgeous. It looks so sexy, I love touching it. I love going out with it. I NEVER miss the screen. I don't mind anymore that I cannot manually enter my non coded lens, I don't mind that the visoflex always stays on, I don't care about anything right now.... because there is one thing about it THAT I HATE ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE. I hate that the spot metering. I hate that it is not multi centered. I know what you will say, I should not use an M, then. Well, I loved using my M10P, trhrough the OVF, but with the screen on on low luminosity. This way, my image was light metered like it is 2020, or 2021. Not like it's 1960. This is the one thing that I don't know if ill get used to, ever. I need to try hard, but its making me miss my P too much. P.S. I am totally aware that the problem is me. Not the camera. I am just not trained, or good enough, to have to worry about spot metering. If anyone has tips on how to expose better with spot metering, maybe that'll change my early opinion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 22, 2021 Share #37 Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Steven said: Quick update: The M10D is gorgeous. It looks so sexy, I love touching it. I love going out with it. I NEVER miss the screen. I don't mind anymore that I cannot manually enter my non coded lens, I don't mind that the visoflex always stays on, I don't care about anything right now.... because there is one thing about it THAT I HATE ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE. I hate that the spot metering. I hate that it is not multi centered. I know what you will say, I should not use an M, then. Well, I loved using my M10P, trhrough the OVF, but with the screen on on low luminosity. This way, my image was light metered like it is 2020, or 2021. Not like it's 1960. This is the one thing that I don't know if ill get used to, ever. I need to try hard, but its making me miss my P too much. P.S. I am totally aware that the problem is me. Not the camera. I am just not trained, or good enough, to have to worry about spot metering. If anyone has tips on how to expose better with spot metering, maybe that'll change my early opinion? It’s not spot metering. It’s mostly center weighted when using the rangefinder. With visoflex you can choose spot, center weighted or multi field using the app. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted January 22, 2021 Share #38 Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Steven said: ...If anyone has tips on how to expose better with spot metering, maybe that'll change my early opinion? As jdlaing says, it's center-weighted metering and covers an oval area as shown in the manual. If I had an M10-D, I would expose with it the way I do with the M6 — either exposing for the highlights (as I would do slide film) or for the mid-tones (as I would do with negative film): which of the two to use would depend on the light situation of the scene. However, all this is theoretical because, as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't touch an M10-D: I prefer to have the M10's flexibility of looking at the histogram — or of taking a test shot and examining on the LCD what's happening to the highlights and dark tones — to see what's happening to the highlights. I say "flexibility" because I only do that occasionally, when I want to be sure I'm not blowing the highlights or crushing the dark tones too much. ________________________Frog Leaping photobook Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 22, 2021 Share #39 Posted January 22, 2021 8 hours ago, Steven said: hate that the spot metering. Grow up 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share #40 Posted January 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, otto.f said: Grow up How 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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