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Moving from TL2 to CL


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Has anyone else made that (more lateral) transition, or perhaps has both cameras in the bag? My CL will arrive Monday and I was wondering what to expect operationally and IQ wise. I already have a couple extra batteries and a handgrip sitting on my desk. Will use it with TL lenses. Thank you.

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As the sensor/electronics are very close to identical, you can expect very little difference in the output of the cameras. Handling, ergonomics and user interface are worlds apart, though. In my opinion neither is "better" than the other, but they do appeal to different types of photographer. Having said that, I have a CL and a TL and have no qualms switching between the two. In last analysis I tend to use the TL -sans Visoflex- more for casual snapshooting around the house and  the CL for more or less serious work when on the move. Possibly the built-in flash of the TL has to do with it -  and of course the EVF.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

As the sensor/electronics are very close to identical, you can expect very little difference in the output of the cameras. Handling, ergonomics and user interface are worlds apart, though. In my opinion neither is "better" than the other, but they do appeal to different types of photographer. Having said that, I have a CL and a TL and have no qualms switching between the two. In last analysis I tend to use the TL -sans Visoflex- more for casual snapshooting around the house and  the CL for more or less serious work when on the move. Possibly the built-in flash of the TL has to do with it.

Thank you. I have used the T before getting the TL2 and really like the simplicity of the design and the UI. The Visoflex comes in handy when I need GPS coordinates. As you said, the CL is a different kettle of fish. I do look forward to running it through its paces.

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You’ll be amazed by CL integrated EVF quality vs external Visoflex. 
DNG output is different. Be ready for more post processing with CL. Because TL2 DNG are precooked with noise reduction and vibrant colours. 
Whereas CL DNG will be somewhat flatter and untouched. But they will have more flexibility in Lightroom. 
 

TL2 JPG looks more attractive than CL one. But you can tweak the CL one to match it : more sharpening and more saturation.

You will lose the very nice on screen depth of field and distance scales of TL line up. 
 

You will gain latest firmware for L-mount alliance lenses compatibility. 
You will also benefit from the unified 3 buttons interface. Making it easy to jump between Leica’s latest cameras: M10, Q2, CL, SL2)    

CL batteries are cheap : get the Sigma variant. 
With CL you can use EVF and flash at the same time. 
 

And the most important point: AF is way faster with CL. 
 

Enjoy your new CL

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I moved from TL2 to CL the moment the CL was launched. Later I bought a TL2 as a backup for the CL for a holiday, but later sold it again, as i was hardly using it.

The EVF is the obvious difference in use, but the change in working method from touchscreen LCD to 'traditional' digital menus is also a big change. There are more things that you can set in the CL compared to the TL2, although oddly the TL2 is slightly more useful for video with its HDMI-out socket.

Compared to the add-on viewfinder on the TL2, the CL EVF is faster, higher resolution, less laggy, and has minimal blackout. Chalk and cheese difference.

I found the CL has faster AF with TL lenses than the TL2. Like the EVF issue, it made the difference between being irritating and acceptable performance.

I saw no difference in IQ and raw files SOOC and in processing between the TL2 and CL. They made a good match in this regard.

So the CL is a better camera in almost all respects than the TL2; but I still miss the TL2 just a little bit!

Edited by LocalHero1953
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Nothing new. Leica is aiming TL line up for people who does not want to mess up with editing. 
So their DNG are pre treated for best results. Whereas CL are more akin to traditional users hence a hand off approach to its DNG. CL users a free to apply any or none editing as they may wish. 

Leica is applying mandatory noise reduction in TL2 from 800 ISO and upwards. 
T and TL is doing the same from 1600 ISO and beyond. And I also found that they also tweaked the colour for more vibrant one straight out of camera. Resulting in green bias and way to flashy colours at 3200 ISO and more  

 

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

I moved from TL2 to CL the moment the CL was launched. Later I bought a TL2 as a backup for the CL for a holiday, but later sold it again, as i was hardly using it.

The EVF is the obvious difference in use, but the change in working method from touchscreen LCD to 'traditional' digital menus is also a big change. There are more things that you can set in the CL compared to the TL2, although oddly the TL2 is slightly more useful for video with its HDMI-out socket.

Compared to the add-on viewfinder on the TL2, the CL EVF is faster, higher resolution, less laggy, and has minimal blackout. Chalk and cheese difference.

I found the CL has faster AF with TL lenses than the TL2. Like the EVF issue, it made the difference between being irritating and acceptable performance.

I saw no difference in IQ and raw files SOOC and in processing between the TL2 and CL. They made a good match in this regard.

So the CL is a better camera in almost all respects than the TL2; but I still miss the TL2 just a little bit!

Thanks for sharing your experience. A little more speed is always welcome. I sometimes rent a Canon for its latest gen AF and find eye AF, focus subject tracking "stickiness" and overall accuracy really exemplary. 

This incoming CL will be my very first EVF camera (the Visoflex on the TL2 notwithstanding), so I'll have to see how the two of us get along.

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

You’ll be amazed by CL integrated EVF quality vs external Visoflex. 
DNG output is different. Be ready for more post processing with CL. Because TL2 DNG are precooked with noise reduction and vibrant colours. 
Whereas CL DNG will be somewhat flatter and untouched. But they will have more flexibility in Lightroom. 
 

TL2 JPG looks more attractive than CL one. But you can tweak the CL one to match it : more sharpening and more saturation.

You will lose the very nice on screen depth of field and distance scales of TL line up. 
 

You will gain latest firmware for L-mount alliance lenses compatibility. 
You will also benefit from the unified 3 buttons interface. Making it easy to jump between Leica’s latest cameras: M10, Q2, CL, SL2)   
 

Enjoy your new CL

Thanks. One aspect of at least my TL2 is a bit disconcerting - it occasionally freezes. I've had five or six hiccups in the past three months, which I find unacceptable. I have not read anything about the CL exhibiting the same aberrant behavior, which was a factor in my decision making process.

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3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Nothing new. Leica is aiming TL line up for people who does not want to mess up with editing. 
So their DNG are pre treated for best results. Whereas CL are more akin to traditional users hence a hand off approach to its DNG. CL users a free to apply any or none editing as they may wish. 

Leica is applying mandatory noise reduction in TL2 from 800 ISO and upwards. 
T and TL is doing the same from 1600 ISO and beyond. And I also found that they also tweaked the colour for more vibrant one straight out of camera. Resulting in green bias and way to flashy colours at 3200 ISO and more  

 

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Have you used both cameras?
This is not in accord with my experience - if there's a difference in the raw files, it is small enough to be ignorable IMO.

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1 hour ago, HuntingSand said:

Thanks. One aspect of at least my TL2 is a bit disconcerting - it occasionally freezes. I've had five or six hiccups in the past three months, which I find unacceptable. I have not read anything about the CL exhibiting the same aberrant behavior, which was a factor in my decision making process.

My CL hasn't frozen, but then my TL2 did not either.

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my CL was 100% reliable

it produced great images, exhibited long battery life (if it’s relevant, I exclusively used manual focus as I didn’t have any AF lenses)

I never noticed any lag whatsoever in the EVF, or the shutter release

However, there was a hiccup sometimes when I let it auto power off and several times I got confused by the power switch which quite honestly wasn’t intuitive to me at all in terms of the little red dot as the “on / off” indicator

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb HuntingSand:

Thanks. One aspect of at least my TL2 is a bit disconcerting - it occasionally freezes. I've had five or six hiccups in the past three months, which I find unacceptable. I have not read anything about the CL exhibiting the same aberrant behavior, which was a factor in my decision making process.

So does mine and other TL2 users have confirmed this behaviour. Leica pretends not to know anything about this bug. It usually has to do with the lens not sitting firmly on the body or the EVF, a matter of contacts?  The CL is much more reliable. I have had some very rare cases of freezing with it, too, lately, but can‘t tell why.

As far as image character is concerned, I do see differences between the two. The CL ist more contrast-oriented, the TL2 has softer dynamics and a warmer character, a question of preferences.

 

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vor 58 Minuten schrieb EUSe:

So does mine and other TL2 users have confirmed this behaviour. Leica pretends not to know anything about this bug. It usually has to do with the lens not sitting firmly on the body or the EVF, a matter of contacts?  The CL is much more reliable. I have had some very rare cases of freezing with it, too, lately, but can‘t tell why.

As far as image character is concerned, I do see differences between the two. The CL ist more contrast-oriented, the TL2 has softer dynamics and a warmer character, a question of preferences.

 

A Leica rep I talked to recently about this tacitly confirmed that it was an issue he had heard from other TL2 users, too. I am not getting bent out of shape about it, my M9 exhibited the occasional problem, too, and we still maintained a good relationship until the very end (sensor corrosion). I really like the T line and am happy with the results, even in its various JPG modes.  Anyway, it'll be interesting to compare the two...

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vor 50 Minuten schrieb HuntingSand:

A Leica rep I talked to recently about this tacitly confirmed that it was an issue he had heard from other TL2 users, too. I am not getting bent out of shape about it, my M9 exhibited the occasional problem, too, and we still maintained a good relationship until the very end (sensor corrosion). I really like the T line and am happy with the results, even in its various JPG modes.  Anyway, it'll be interesting to compare the two...

Let us know what you think and have fun! My M 240 occasionally froze with adapted R-lenses and EVF. Remove the battery and it will again be OK, just like the TL. I like the handling and simplicity of the TL2, but the CL is more sophisticated once you find your way through the menu and the settings. When it comes to really critical focusing, the manual mode may be better with the CL.

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8 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Leica is applying mandatory noise reduction in TL2 from 800 ISO and upwards. 
T and TL is doing the same from 1600 ISO and beyond. And I also found that they also tweaked the colour for more vibrant one straight out of camera. Resulting in green bias and way to flashy colours at 3200 ISO and more

Do you mean in DNG files? If so, a link to such files would be much appreciated if any.

Edited by lct
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Updated to FW 4, I like the interface better now. Dialed in my preferences, set date and time, and took it out for a spin. So far so good...rather a simple machine once you stay with the basics of photography, namely, the control of light. It even focused where I wanted it to 🙂

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I do not have CL nor have I tried it. Yes I have TL2 and today I am very happy, there are things in TL2 that I give a lot of importance and value to, the extra memory in the camera and that the camera acts as a hard disk. I connect the camera via USB and I can edit the photo I want and also charge the battery.

The images of what I have seen do not observe great significant differences. In video there may be some in favor of TL2.

The menu interface, most of us who are years old, see the CL seems more intuitive and comfortable, but my granddaughters, who are young, love to play with TL2. It took me a bit of work to do it, but once I get over it it's easy, although I don't have the dexterity that my granddaughter has, she handles the on-screen menus with both thumbs of both hands at high speed.

Now that she has the 2 cameras, she can use them and compare them.
Sorry, my English is awful.

I hope you enjoy it.

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