Kim Dahl Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share #21 Posted January 3, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) The question was really whether the “extra” production capacitive in Germany (when moving production to Portugal) should be used on SL lenses or new M lens or ...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 3, 2021 Posted January 3, 2021 Hi Kim Dahl, Take a look here Brand new Series M lenses from Wetzlar. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Matlock Posted January 3, 2021 Share #22 Posted January 3, 2021 41 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said: The question was really whether the “extra” production capacitive in Germany (when moving production to Portugal) should be used on SL lenses or new M lens or ...? There really isn't any "extra" capacity as the production already takes place in Portugal anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Dahl Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share #23 Posted January 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Matlock said: There really isn't any "extra" capacity as the production already takes place in Portugal anyway. ok, I had hoped for new and exciting for Leica M 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2021 Share #24 Posted January 3, 2021 Buy lenses with Portugal engraving as they could become rare collector's items! If this nonsense with the extra taxation of Made-in-Germany lenses will hopefully soon be ended, or the US customs will no longer be fooled by the creative renaming, the Portugal engraving might quickly disappear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beewee Posted January 3, 2021 Share #25 Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) Even before the Made in Portugal lenses started selling, most of the sub assemblies for the Leica S and SL, along with many lens sub-assembly across the entire Leica portfolio, in addition to their sport optics, came from the Portugal plants due to lower labour costs. For many ‘Made in Germany’ products, only the final assembly and QC was done in Wetzlar. For the Made in Portugal products, Leica basically expanded the final assembly and QC to Portugal but otherwise the production processes are identical and the product aside from the engraving are identical to the Made in Germany versions. If all you care about is shooting, then both versions are identical and it makes sense to choose the lower priced one. As far as long term value goes, I’m not sure if the Portuguese lenses will actually become a collector item given that there will be much more than just a handful of them being produced - even if production in Portugal was to cease immediately today. I feel they will be similar to the Canadian vs German lenses of the 70s-80s and that the people will be willing to pay a small premium for the late-model German production units - all things being equal. It should also be noted that although the US is a sizeable market for Leica, Asia is - by far - the largest market and people in those countries will in general see a Made in Germany product having a higher [perceived] value compared to a Made in Portugal product, even if it only differs by the engraving. To this end, it’s unlikely that Leica would permanently cease production of certain lenses in Germany. Edited January 3, 2021 by beewee Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted January 3, 2021 Share #26 Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, beewee said: production of certain lenses in Germany. Which lenses would that be. It is clear Portugal is assembling some of the most complex and tolerant specific lenses, such as the 50 APO-Summicon. Edited January 3, 2021 by pedaes Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 3, 2021 Share #27 Posted January 3, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 9 hours ago, Danner said: But, why aren't Portuguese made lenses 20% less expensive? Me thinks, something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Because Leica divides the gain over various products, some made in Germany. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 4, 2021 Share #28 Posted January 4, 2021 It is a political thing. China and EU want to sell here in USA but do not want to buy our goods. Result is a long standing imbalance of payments and foreign countries ending up with our money. President imposed tariff to make foreign good cost more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 4, 2021 Share #29 Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) That is a bit of a 19th-century view of tariffs. In the real world: - Boeing filed a complaint with the WTO (World Trade Organization) that the EU was subsidizing the cost of Airbus planes (everywhere in the world) with government money. The real beef was that Boeing had trouble matching Airbus's prices in selling planes in third-party countries (as well as to US airlines). - after years of analysis (the dispute dates to 2006), the WTO agreed, and granted permission for the US, on behalf of Boeing's complaint, to institute tariffs as "punishment" of the EU. In hopes that it would persuade the EU to cease the Airbus subsidies. - The tariff comes out of the pockets of US customers who pay more for EU products, and goes to the government (not to Boeing, and not to US workers). It is in effect a tax on US consumers. Unless, of course, the EU manufacturers choose to absorb all or part of the tariff cost themselves, as a gift to their loyal US customers. - Which, as Jaap has said, Leica has done in part - thus the prices of lenses only went up 10% while the lens tariffs are 25%. Leica is "sucking up" the other 15%. Leica has recovered some of that through raising prices on untariffed items (cameras, cases, batteries, lens caps, lens hoods, etc. etc.) - Leica is also using the loophole that the lens tariffs only apply to "German-made" lenses (someone in our Commerce Department wasn't paying attention - and didn't know Portugal had an optical industry ). Shifting final assembly of a few lenses to Portugal - and labelling them that way - makes then exempt from the tariffs. They cost the same as the pre-tariff German lens prices (thus the apparent 10% discount). - The funniest part is that the WTO has also authorized the EU to put tariffs on US products - because it found the US also subsidizes Boeing (mostly in R&D, some of it military). Which the EU did in Nov. 2020, on US fish, cheese, cotton, tractors, spirits, and.....jets. Presumably that means Lears and Gulfstreams as well as Boeings - like Leica, they got caught in a dispute that has nothing to do with them specifically. Edited January 4, 2021 by adan 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted January 4, 2021 Share #30 Posted January 4, 2021 18 hours ago, Matlock said: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Are they in Portugal making pancake lenses out of any existing Leica lens? 😁 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted January 4, 2021 Share #31 Posted January 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, epand56 said: Are they in Portugal making pancake lenses out of any existing Leica lens? 😁 😄 Looks like it. Sorry. rather a poor copy. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom.w.bn Posted January 4, 2021 Share #32 Posted January 4, 2021 vor 8 Stunden schrieb tobey bilek: It is a political thing. China and EU want to sell here in USA but do not want to buy our goods. Result is a long standing imbalance of payments and foreign countries ending up with our money. President imposed tariff to make foreign good cost more. It's not a political thing that people and companies in Europe don't buy enough US products for an equal trade balance. Offer a desireable product and people will buy it. 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted January 4, 2021 Share #33 Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Matlock said: 😄 Looks like it. Sorry. rather a poor copy. You did well to get any picture, as I understood visits were 'no photography'. Unfortunately, I think Leica no longer allow visits to the Portugal plant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 4, 2021 Share #34 Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, tom.w.bn said: It's not a political thing that people and companies in Europe don't buy enough US products for an equal trade balance. Offer a desireable product and people will buy it. The US does offer a number of desirable products. The problem (for trade balance) is they usually have them made in China. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted January 4, 2021 Share #35 Posted January 4, 2021 53 minutes ago, pedaes said: You did well to get any picture, as I understood visits were 'no photography'. Unfortunately, I think Leica no longer allow visits to the Portugal plant. The picture is from a visit to the plant in 2017 and published in "Film and Digital Times" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted January 4, 2021 Share #36 Posted January 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, wattsy said: The US does offer a number of desirable products. The problem (for trade balance) is they usually have them made in China. Like the Cross USA pens that The President uses to sign official edicts and is made in the Cross plant in China. (Sadly they closed their plant in Ireland). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 4, 2021 Share #37 Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Matlock said: Like the Cross USA pens that The President uses to sign official edicts and is made in the Cross plant in China. (Sadly they closed their plant in Ireland). I was thinking principally of Apple, largest company in the world, etc. but outsources virtually all production to the Far East (and, interestingly, is another company that once also manufactured in Ireland). I did my bit to help the US/EU trade balance by buying Gibson and Martin USA made guitars and a Fender amp (though I think the latter might have been made in Mexico).😀 Edited January 4, 2021 by wattsy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 4, 2021 Share #38 Posted January 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, Matlock said: Like the Cross USA pens that The President uses to sign official edicts and is made in the Cross plant in China. (Sadly they closed their plant in Ireland Cross Presidential and Special Pens for Politicians are made in New England. Presidential pens Cross has been an official supplier of pens to the White House since at least the 1970s. The pens used to sign legislation are often given out as souvenirs to those who attend the bill signings. While an official Cross–White House program was begun under president Bill Clinton, it is known that the tradition goes back to at least the administration of Gerald Ford.[8] All presidents from Ronald Reagan to Donald Trump[8][1] signed legislation using Cross pens; it is unknown if earlier presidents did so.[1] Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Clinton favored the Cross Townsend model; Obama later switched to the Century II model in black lacquer, with black medium point refill.[8] The Trump administration placed an initial order for 150 Cross Century II pens in January 2017.[8] Sometime before November 2018, Trump broke with tradition and ceased using the Cross pen, saying "it was a horrible pen, and it was extremely expensive". Since, he has signed documents using a customized Sharpie marker manufactured by Newell Brands.[9] Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo signs state laws using Cross pens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 4, 2021 Share #39 Posted January 4, 2021 46 minutes ago, wattsy said: The US does offer a number of desirable products. But no M lenses🤔. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted January 4, 2021 Share #40 Posted January 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, jdlaing said: Cross Presidential and Special Pens for Politicians are made in New England. Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo signs state laws using Cross pens. True, but assembled from components made in China. All Cross pens are now made in China with the exception of the nibs for the Peerless range which are made by Sailor of Japan. I can recommend these as fantastic pens if you like a fairly chunky style. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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