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A New Year Wish for the M System


setuporg

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Given that every previous M camera already necessarily exists, it's especially unclear to me why anyone would begrudge additional directions. If they make an M11 with a hybrid OVF/EVF. IBIS, GPS, door access, and dual SD slots would it make everyone's existing M worse? If an existing M is already what you want, don't you already have what you want?

Edited by astrostl
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2 minutes ago, astrostl said:

Given that every previous M camera already necessarily exists, it's especially unclear to me why anyone would begrudge additional directions. If they make an M11 with a hybrid OVF/EVF. IBIS, GPS, door access, and dual SD slots would it make everyone's existing M worse? If an existing M is already what you want, don't you already have what you want?

I am articulating a conservative position that we don't want this stuff here.  M is defined by what it's not as much as by what it is.  NIMBY => Not In My BackYard.  M11 should refine M10-R in the ways that eschew all the anti-M features.

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10 minutes ago, astrostl said:

...If they make an M11 with a hybrid OVF/EVF. IBIS, GPS, door access, and dual SD slots would it make everyone's existing M worse?...

No. But it would make buying a new - and "no-crap-features-please" - digital Leica M rangefinder-style camera problematic...

Philip.

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10 minutes ago, pippy said:

No. But it would make buying a new - and "no-crap-features-please" - digital Leica M rangefinder-style camera problematic...

I'm grateful for my M10 which is digital, has a light meter, automatic exposure options, a display, live view, and other features which surely managed to upset some people.

While I think the odds of Leica either reading this forum or especially materially factoring it in their products are incredibly low, we can look to things like continued support for 24MP models (M10-P remaining in production with explicit support, the brand-new SL2-S, etc.) for indications that they aren't going to somehow forget purist (??) takes.

Edited by astrostl
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But it's not thaaat bad:

  • Want EVF?  Get something else. - possible with the M 240 and the M10 (OK - some room for improvement here)
  • Want IBIS?  Get something else. *
  • Want eye tracking?  Get something else. *
  • Want GPS?  Get something else. - possible with the M 240
  • Want video?  Get something else. - possible with the M 240
  • Want easy battery/card access, or two SD card slots?  Get something else! - Hmm, you need space for this. I never mind the M 240 to be thicker than a film M. But could be hard to keep the size of the M 10 then.
  • Want autofocus?  You get the idea.*

* here I had to admit, that I don't miss this. But possibly I'm the only one?

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8 minutes ago, fotomas said:

 

  • Want autofocus?  You get the idea.*

* here I had to admit, that I don't miss this. But possibly I'm the only one?

OK here I was just kidding, because the whole rangefinder experience defines the M, which derives its name from it.  The moment one adds AF, there's a whole set of issues WTF is the F, so to speak -- hence AFs, AFc, face tracking, joystick to position the F, focus peaking, and ultimately the eye tracker, and the mind tracker to come.  RF obviates all that, forever, hopefully.

Edited by setuporg
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16 minutes ago, astrostl said:

I'm grateful for my M10 which is digital, has a light meter, automatic exposure options, a display, live view, and other features which surely managed to upset some people.

While I think the odds of Leica either reading this forum or especially materially factoring it in their products are incredibly low, we can look to things like continued support for 24MP models (M10-P remaining in production with explicit support, the brand-new SL2-S, etc.) for indications that they aren't going to somehow forget purist (??) takes.

Dr Kaufmann (they guy who owns the company) is a forum member, so it's actually highly likely.

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This subject has been discussed many many times.

I'm never going to be in the market for a new M camera but FWIW if you deviate too much from what it is, it will not longer be the same.

That's no reason not to develop a new system however, but it won't ever be an M system if only for technical reasons. As others have said if you want AF and EVF in a full frame Leica, then get the SL.

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1 minute ago, earleygallery said:

Dr Kaufmann (they guy who owns the company) is a forum member, so it's actually highly likely.

Dr Kaufman, in case you read this -- we love you, and wish you and Leica a happy new year!  M10-R was a great product for 2020, as well as the M10M.  I always enjoy the Leica 60, 599/600 that you signed along with all the 599 others, it's timeless.  Let it guide the future Ms!

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32 minutes ago, lct said:

Not sure why purists or non purists wouldn't want a compact SL with M mount....

I agree completely.

None whatsoever as far as I can understand the situation. A more compact SL instead of the current pretty bulky fare would be an interesting approach. But then it might end up in the situation back in the mid-1970's where we find ourselves faced with the choice between buying the Leica CL / Minolta CLE instead of the larger, much more technically advanced but much more ungainly M5, in fact. Now; where did that lead us?

Oh, yes. I remember now.

:)

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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3 minutes ago, setuporg said:

...I always enjoy the Leica 60, 599/600 that you signed along with all the 599 others, it's timeless.  Let it guide the future Ms!...

Yup (yet again).

I was going to mention the M-D Typ-262 earlier on but thought 'Why bother?". Some folks will never get the 'fundamental' point. As I see it. And that's fine.

Philip.

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1 minute ago, pippy said:

Yup (yet again).

I was going to mention the M-D Typ-262 earlier on but thought 'Why bother?". Some folks will never get the 'fundamental' point. As I see it. And that's fine.

The Leica 60/M-D and the Monochromes materialize a kind of a dream that only Leica is capable of.  Now this is the kind of innovations in the M system that are inimical to it.

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28 minutes ago, lct said:

Not sure why purists or non purists wouldn't want a compact SL with M mount. This purist having 5 M bodies would certainly be interested. Now Leica said no so no need to rub salt in the wound.

If that surely interesting compact SL with an M mount ever appears, we can call it an SL-M and put it under the SL forum.:) 

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1 hour ago, setuporg said:

The Leica 60/M-D and the Monochromes materialize a kind of a dream that only Leica is capable of...

As Leica themselves trumpeted in 2004;

"With the Leica M Edition 60, photographers compose and frame each subject in the viewfinder, set the aperture and shutter speed and press the shutter release at the decisive moment. Instead of the constant distraction of technical features and the checking of menu settings and controls, they enjoy the freedom to concentrate completely on their subjects. With this concept, Leica is once again the synonym for an art in which technology plays a role subordinate to the essentially creative aspects of photography."

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Here's hoping they believe the same thing today...

:)

Philip.

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