Q2 Monochrom "stuck" bright white pixels

[SrMi]

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2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

My Q2M arrives today, and I'll add to the conversation as I can. The suggestion to use Capture One and the Single Pixel slider in the Noise Reduction panel should work. Since Capture One never automatically applies single pixel fixes to images like Lightroom does, ...

<snip>

 

https://learn.captureone.com/blog-posts/how-to-fix-permanent-hot-pixels/

"In Capture One Pro 7 these hot pixels will typically be removed automatically."

"Capture One Pro 7 will automatically apply a certain amount of Single Pixel noise reduction depending on the exposure time and ISO"

I assume this is still the case with v21.

[hdmesa]

29 minutes ago, SrMi said:

https://learn.captureone.com/blog-posts/how-to-fix-permanent-hot-pixels/

"In Capture One Pro 7 these hot pixels will typically be removed automatically."

"Capture One Pro 7 will automatically apply a certain amount of Single Pixel noise reduction depending on the exposure time and ISO"

I assume this is still the case with v21.

Maybe the C1 single pixel slider is an extension of the auto function then — increasing the slider makes it more aggressive finding the specks.

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[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Maybe the C1 single pixel slider is an extension of the auto function then — increasing the slider makes it more aggressive finding the specks.

Could be. I noticed that I needed to set the pixel slider to 1 or 2 to make my Q2M's stuck pixels disappear (v20). 

[hdmesa]

Just now, SrMi said:

Could be. I noticed that I needed to set the pixel slider to 1 or 2 to make my Q2M's stuck pixels disappear (v20). 

I've actually tossed around the idea of setting 1px as the default for all my cameras since it doesn't seem to have any ill effect. I guess if one shoots a lot of astro that might be a bad idea, though 😁

[Siriusone59]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:54 AM, Leica Guy said:

I’m sorry you’re experiencing this problem. A funny (to me anyway) thought is perhaps the Q2M is designed for astrophotography and stuck pixels look like stars. 

Maybe Leica used some creative advertising and placed those small monoliths about the globe...  Remember Dave Bowman's famous line from the book version of 2001, "my God, it's full of stars"...  Yeah, I know a bit warped but this is New Year's eve.🤪

[hdmesa]

So far am not seeing any stuck pixels at ISO 800-1250. Full size JPEG attached – shot at ISO 800 and compressed to fit within the forum upload limit ("8" in PS). This is with the exposure pulled down to make the image dark then raising the shadows to the max setting, but no combination of edits in C1 revealed a stuck pixel. Will keep an eye out for them.

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[nwphil]

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3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

So far am not seeing any stuck pixels at ISO 800-1250. Full size JPEG attached – shot at ISO 800 and compressed to fit within the forum upload limit ("8" in PS). This is with the exposure pulled down to make the image dark then raising the shadows to the max setting, but no combination of edits in C1 revealed a stuck pixel. Will keep an eye out for them.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks for sharing your finds. Have you tried analyzing images taken with lens cap on - fully black, and use the highlight slider(that's LR not sure if C1 has the same) all the way up?

[Guest]

I had this problem too and sent it back to the Leica Singapore store and they replaced my camera after 2 weeks. I thought this was a one off thing, but it seems there are more such cases. I have not fully tested my new camera (just received 3 days ago) to see if there is this problem with this unit. Urgh.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, nickkraal said:

I had this problem too and sent it back to the Leica Singapore store and they replaced my camera after 2 weeks. I thought this was a one off thing, but it seems there are more such cases. I have not fully tested my new camera (just received 3 days ago) to see if there is this problem with this unit. Urgh.

Just took some high ISO shots @5k and I have the same hot/stuck white pixels with the replacement unit too.

[Leica Guy]

It would be very helpful to hear from Leica if they do have a built-in firmware capability for mapping out the hot pixels. Replacing cameras seems like a very expensive solution. Has anyone received feedback from Leica to the affirmative?

[RoySmith]

23 minutes ago, Leica Guy said:

It would be very helpful to hear from Leica if they do have a built-in firmware capability for mapping out the hot pixels. Replacing cameras seems like a very expensive solution. Has anyone received feedback from Leica to the affirmative?

I totally agree. Other camera manufacturers do this. 

[nwphil]

That's why I opted to send my camera in and emailed HG to make them aware of this issue. Replacing the camera imo, places a burden on you (might have to pay restocking and shipping fees), on the store ( if nothing less time spent handling the exchange and send it to Leica) and then still not solving the issue - likely as it seems you are just getting another one with same problem, and maybe with les or more "stuck" pixels.

Note that I place " " in stuck, because still not sure of they are. In my case they show in black shots, but not in normal pictures, and my sensor after tested did not reveal bad pixels. So, what is indeed going on? well for starters, a lot of crickets noise from Leica....

The solution I was presented indicates that they do home in-house hardware and software to do it, and at this time it's the only way - maybe later they can/will be able to release a firmware that handles that.

I only asking people to take action alerting Leica, and make your voice be heard, Go straight from the top, and they will have to send the solution downstream  

[nwphil]

4 hours ago, Leica Guy said:

It would be very helpful to hear from Leica if they do have a built-in firmware capability for mapping out the hot pixels. Replacing cameras seems like a very expensive solution. Has anyone received feedback from Leica to the affirmative?

sort of...they are not admitting yet there is a problem, but they seem to have way to solve it, and aware that pixels need extra time to get re-mapped with use or if not, an in-house software fix

Edited January 2, 2021 by nwphil

[Leica Guy]

Seems like to me taking images with the cap on would show hot pixels. Not dead ones. Not very difficult. Hopefully Leica will address this soon. The holidays have not helped their response time, but starting Monday most people will be back to work and maybe, just maybe, we’ll see a solution emerge. 

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, Leica Guy said:

Seems like to me taking images with the cap on would show hot pixels. Not dead ones. Not very difficult. Hopefully Leica will address this soon. The holidays have not helped their response time, but starting Monday most people will be back to work and maybe, just maybe, we’ll see a solution emerge. 

Hot pixels show up only during long exposure when the camera sensor gets hot. They are normal, and can be eliminated with LENR. Stuck pixels appear at short exposure (e.g., 1/30 sec with lens cap on).

[nwphil]

22 minutes ago, Leica Guy said:

Seems like to me taking images with the cap on would show hot pixels. Not dead ones. Not very difficult. Hopefully Leica will address this soon. The holidays have not helped their response time, but starting Monday most people will be back to work and maybe, just maybe, we’ll see a solution emerge. 

Indeed it's what i am leaning to think as explanation - but they don't show at all isos, and just like SrMi is saying and not even consistent with what is normal behaviour  - weird that in LR, pushing the highlights to the right  a low iso shot shows a rectangular shape with a circle in the center; at high isos it seems to be gone, but then  it shows an effect similar to vignetting. 

Nevertheless the hot pixels are too many, and an increase of 300 actuations so far it's not overcoming the issue - no specific amount  was given by tech.

Yes, you are right - next week(s) Leica is very likely to finally acknowledge that is paying attention

Edited January 2, 2021 by nwphil

[hdmesa]

20 hours ago, nwphil said:

Thanks for sharing your finds. Have you tried analyzing images taken with lens cap on - fully black, and use the highlight slider(that's LR not sure if C1 has the same) all the way up?

No, I haven't, for the same reason I don't look into my new lenses with an LED flashlight in search of dust

[hdmesa]

Ok, so in the interest of science, I checked at ISO 3200 with my hand over the lens, 1/2000 sec. and f/16 – ten shots with anywhere from 5 to 8 single white pixels.

Setting the C1 Noise Reduction panel's Single Pixel to "1" removes all of them.

Off the top of my head I can't remember which other-brand cameras specifically, but at high ISOs in C1, I often get the same single white pixels showing up in dark area of the image – it happen often enough that I've considered setting 1px as the default for all my cameras.

As others have reported, the JPEG generated alongside the DNG does not have the white pixels, so this is definitely something Leica can fix in firmware. My guess would be the software engineers forgot to add the code to the firmware on the Q2M to correct the RAW – an oversight. I highly doubt it learns and corrects over time since it is correcting the JPEGs in real time.

[SrMi]

12 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Ok, so in the interest of science, I checked at ISO 3200 with my hand over the lens, 1/2000 sec. and f/16 – ten shots with anywhere from 5 to 8 single white pixels.

Setting the C1 Noise Reduction panel's Single Pixel to "1" removes all of them.

Off the top of my head I can't remember which other-brand cameras specifically, but at high ISOs in C1, I often get the same single white pixels showing up in dark area of the image – it happen often enough that I've considered setting 1px as the default for all my cameras.

As others have reported, the JPEG generated alongside the DNG does not have the white pixels, so this is definitely something Leica can fix in firmware. My guess would be the software engineers forgot to add the code to the firmware on the Q2M to correct the RAW – an oversight. I highly doubt it learns and corrects over time since it is correcting the JPEGs in real time.

The pixel should appear at ISO 800 already (none at ISO 400). My Q2 has no stuck pixels when testing with fast shutter speed.

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[hdmesa]

39 minutes ago, SrMi said:

The pixel should appear at ISO 800 already (none at ISO 400). My Q2 has no stuck pixels when testing with fast shutter speed.

Your Q2 probably does have them as do all cameras, but the firmware maps them out just like it does on the Q2M JPEGs. Leica just needs to update the firmware to address the issue.