Q2 Monochrom "stuck" bright white pixels

[nwphil]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

well, I am emailing Leica tomorrow, asking for their imput and sharing a link to this thread too.

Not sure if they need to see my shots, or need something different, but helping them in the end will help me and all of us, I believe 

Not here to say what to do, or others should do - but if you have the time and will, might be great to join your voice and shout to Leica ( via email/feedback/etc)

 

[anuncastshadow]

2 minutes ago, nwphil said:

well, I am emailing Leica tomorrow, asking for their imput and sharing a link to this thread too.

Not sure if they need to see my shots, or need something different, but helping them in the end will help me and all of us, I believe 

Not here to say what to do, or others should do - but if you have the time and will, might be great to join your voice and shout to Leica ( via email/feedback/etc)

 

I think I am perhaps being overly nitpicky, considering it's something present on most, if not all Q2Ms and I haven't seen anyone write about it until now. But then again, it's one of those things that once you notice it, it bugs you constantly.

Will let you know what dialog I have with Leica, and I appreciate you reaching out as well.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[SrMi]

My theory: blame Adobe for the issue .

My Q2 has stuck pixels as well, as has been determined by Bill Claff's software. However, those stuck pixels are not visible when imported in Adobe software (and probably C1). LrC and ACR should automatically eliminate stuck pixels. For some reason, that is not working with Q2M files above ISO 400.
It is typical for sensors to have stuck pixels, but there should be a workflow where they are not bothering us. Therefore I think that replacing a Q2M will not solve the issue of visible stuck pixels.
While we are waiting on Leica's (or Adobe's?) reaction, Photoshop's "Filter->Noise->Dust & Scratches (1 pixel)" can be used to fix those pixels that bother us.

(A better solution may be to use the darkframe technique)

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by SrMi

[nwphil]

19 minutes ago, SrMi said:

My theory: blame Adobe for the issue .

My Q2 has stuck pixels as well, as has been determined by Bill Claff's software. However, those stuck pixels are not visible when imported in Adobe software (and probably C1). LrC and ACR should automatically eliminate stuck pixels. For some reason, that is not working with Q2M files above ISO 400.
It is typical for sensors to have stuck pixels, but there should be a workflow where they are not bothering us. Therefore I think that replacing a Q2M will not solve the issue of visible stuck pixels.
While we are waiting on Leica's (or Adobe's?) reaction, Photoshop's "Filter->Noise->Dust & Scratches (1 pixel)" can be used to fix those pixels that bother us.

(A better solution may be to use the darkframe technique)

 

Do you have or the chance to try with another software? A bit busy right now, but eventually I will get to it...sometime today.

I have Niki collection installed but not sure if will be of help; an ON1 trial is not activated yet, but this could be a good time to do it.

I don't think either Canon or Olympus editing software would be relevant for this issue, but I might given them a try and see if it works - any other software worthy of experimenting with in your opinion? - trying to prepare ahead for the blame-game of Adobe vs Leica... 😁

[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, nwphil said:

Do you have or the chance to try with another software? A bit busy right now, but eventually I will get to it...sometime today.

I have Niki collection installed but not sure if will be of help; an ON1 trial is not activated yet, but this could be a good time to do it.

I don't think either Canon or Olympus editing software would be relevant for this issue, but I might given them a try and see if it works - any other software worthy of experimenting with in your opinion? - trying to prepare ahead for the blame-game of Adobe vs Leica... 😁

Capture One 20 has the same hot-pixel issue. I do not know if any other software than Adobe's can automatically eliminate stuck pixels.

I think this is Leica's issue to solve, either together with Adobe or not.

To be clear, I am just speculating, and can be wrong. I am sending my Q2M to Leica for analysis.

 

[Leica28]

Though I posted just a single photo of my “hot pixel”, I did count a total of 14 - all in black/very dark portions of the images.  I tried the same test with my Q2 and there were no errant pixels, though noise was heightened compared to the Q2M (to be expected).   So disappointing as I was loving the camera, even more than my Q2.  

[nwphil]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

23 minutes ago, Leica28 said:

Though I posted just a single photo of my “hot pixel”, I did count a total of 14 - all in black/very dark portions of the images.  I tried the same test with my Q2 and there were no errant pixels, though noise was heightened compared to the Q2M (to be expected).   So disappointing as I was loving the camera, even more than my Q2.  

well, this is going to be a very hot topic/issue. Still not sure if this is some dead pixel, or dust or other abnormally - OTOH, I think Leica will be able to sort out the issue fast enough if they get alerted by a large number of Q2M owners.

Not sure if the camera can be deemed defective - or in better words, qualifies for such. At stake it's the product  life and their reputation, so I expect a quick action.

I already emailed Leica this morning, and mention this thread (link provided) - will they look? maybe.. but I am sure they will pay attention to volume of emails regarding this issue. Please take a minute and email them, even if are planning returning the camera.

Despite all, I am going to wait a bit for their answer and response  - both my email and the issue  itself as notification to owners.

[Leica28]

Yes, of course, I will be happy to email them - any way to help out.   I will do it after I leave here.  Since this is my first purchase of a monochrom sensor camera - is this pixel behavior expected or normal?  Perhaps someone with an M10M can chime in and tell us their take on it.    Ok.  I've decided to postpone sending it back to Leica for now.   I will await their response and see if they can correct the issue.   Keeping my fingers crossed.  Q2M is going back into the box for safe keeping along with my dreams of using it....

[SrMi]

42 minutes ago, Leica28 said:

Yes, of course, I will be happy to email them - any way to help out.   I will do it after I leave here.  Since this is my first purchase of a monochrom sensor camera - is this pixel behavior expected or normal?  Perhaps someone with an M10M can chime in and tell us their take on it.    Ok.  I've decided to postpone sending it back to Leica for now.   I will await their response and see if they can correct the issue.   Keeping my fingers crossed.  Q2M is going back into the box for safe keeping along with my dreams of using it....

There are no stuck pixels on my M10M.

Note that M cameras have a different sensor type than SL2 and Q2 cameras.

 

[anuncastshadow]

Quote

Since this is my first purchase of a monochrom sensor camera - is this pixel behavior expected or normal?

For what it's worth, this is my first Leica (and monochrome sensor at that) as well, but it's difficult to say whether this is "normal". I am not an expert and won't pretend to be as much, but it's something I am aware happens on any digital sensor (I have seen it manifest on at least one DSLR I owned prior, a Nikon D2X) albeit not quite in such a large number. I cannot personally speak to whether this phenomenon is common or observable on M sensors, but anecdotally I believe it is either very minimal or not present based on everything I've read about other people's experiences with them.

Now, this could be due to the fact that we're talking about 47 million pixels, a few of which may have issues as part of a normal manufacturing process (this is similar to high definition displays like a MacBook Pro or LED HDTV, where pixel defects are not uncommon, and manufacturers may sometimes in fact indicate an "acceptable" number of defective pixels before the warranty coverage kicks in). It could also be due to the fact that this is an issue present with nearly any camera, and we're used to not seeing it because software usually resolves these defects for us (as theorized above re: Lightroom/Adobe shortcomings).

Personally I just find the issue to be annoying but not especially concerning (I don't think the Q2M has an inherent flaw). I thought at first it was just an unusually "pixelated" unit, but again, perhaps this is something that's normally not observable, and is only presenting itself currently because of some software issue.

Leica has invited me to send along a RAW exposure for evaluation, and indicated there is no firmware update/process available (which isn't surprising). I will share any relevant information Leica provides as part of this.

Again, I don't want to exaggerate the issue, and I do feel like I'm being a little nitpicky (which I'll argue is justified with a $6k instrument), but I'm just the type of person that can't shake the feeling that those white dots are there, especially now that I can see them without having to zoom in (once your eyes know where to look, they always jump to those spots). I would be just as happy knowing it's an Adobe issue as I would be knowing this is just simply expected behavior (which just means the camera is not for me). Who knows, maybe it's just the fact this camera is so new, an update is required on Adobe or Capture One's parts.

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Edited December 21, 2020 by anuncastshadow

[Sjz]

Does this remind anyone else of the issue below?

Apologies if they are nothing like each other.

 

[anuncastshadow]

19 minutes ago, Sjz said:

Does this remind anyone else of the issue below?

Apologies if they are nothing like each other.

 

Thank you for sharing this! The issue is very similar, but not exactly the same. I think the two phenomena are related in some way, and to hear it was resolved via software/firmware on the SL2 leads me to believe that Leica may potentially do the same with the Q2M.

[SrMi]

37 minutes ago, Sjz said:

Does this remind anyone else of the issue below?

Apologies if they are nothing like each other.

 

There is a difference between hot pixels (long exposures) and stuck pixels (as on Q2M, short exposures).

Edited December 21, 2020 by SrMi

[Leica28]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

There is a difference between hot pixels (long exposures) and stuck pixels (as on Q2M, short exposures).

In my case it would be stuck pixels (as opposed to hot ones) because I have not been doing any long exposures.   In any case, since I know these pixel issues exist and are easily seen in darker areas of the image it just diminishes the enjoyment of using this camera.   

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Leica28 said:

In my case it would be stuck pixels (as opposed to hot ones) because I have not been doing any long exposures.   In any case, since I know these pixel issues exist and are easily seen in darker areas of the image it just diminishes the enjoyment of using this camera.   

I believe that all discussed issues are stuck pixels. All my tests where run with 1/15 sec.

[fieldafield]

Hi All, another one here. At 1600% they are clearly a cluster of 4 pixels . . . I have 6 - camera also bought from RangefinderHK  thoughit only arrived today soI have a return period. . . . I would expect it to be fixed by firmware but wanted to add my vote to the campaign.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited December 22, 2020 by fieldafield

[nwphil]

17 minutes ago, fieldafield said:

Hi All, another one here. At 1600% they are clearly a cluster of 4 pixels . . . I have 6 - camera also bought from RangefinderHK  thoughit only arrived today soI have a return period. . . . I would expect it to be fixed by firmware but wanted to add my vote to the campaign.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks - next task: email Leica please  and tell them about your findings and concerns. All the best. Phil

[fieldafield]

Just did some further testing and it seems the same as other reports - all good to 800 ISO. Interestingly, if I shoot jpg only (heaven forbid), the issue doesn't occur at all at any ISO! So that would point to an image processing issue, with Lightroom or other raw converter . . .

Photoshop shows this pattern for each spot - at nearly 5000%!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited December 22, 2020 by fieldafield

[nwphil]

jo

3 hours ago, fieldafield said:

Just did some further testing and it seems the same as other reports - all good to 800 ISO. Interestingly, if I shoot jpg only (heaven forbid), the issue doesn't occur at all at any ISO! So that would point to an image processing issue, with Lightroom or other raw converter . . .

Photoshop shows this pattern for each spot - at nearly 5000%!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

join the list (sorry), clog the (leica's) mailbox

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[nwphil]

FIY only - been doing some research and come across some results that seem interesting - learning and reached out to some people for help and answers

https://photographylife.com/dead-vs-stuck-vs-hot-pixels

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3855294

https://www.photonstophotos.net/

Leica USA has not been very fast replying - only the technical department sent out an automated reply; repair dept. still silent till now, but only been 24 hours ( comparing with LeicaFoto app support team replying times, which is  same day or opening of business hours locally)