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Leica SL2-S Survey


Leica SL2-S Survey  

557 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you buy the Leica SL2-S?

    • Yes, I already have a Leica SL / SL2
      87
    • Yes, I have another Leica System
      95
    • Yes, will be my first Leica
      8
    • Interested, but I'm waiting for more tests
      116
    • Interesting camera, but not for me
      150
    • No thanks
      100


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Are you going to put a piece of black tape over the dot on your mask?

oh and here are a few with a lens from 1958 😇 GFX50R + Elcan 90mm Summicron LTM [1958]   Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden!   Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden!   Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du w

Mine has just arrived (a day earlier than expected - UPS are shifting their parcels.) The Leica store certainly know how to give their customers a warm feeling (while spending large sums of money): an excellent trade-in deal on my SL2, a copy of LFI, a face mask with a red dot (those will be valuable in years to come) and a Leica biscuit - in a box as fancy as the camera box.  Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Ei

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I have an M camera for daily carry. Which to my mind remains the best 35mm camera for that purpose. And an SL 601 for the times that I need it. I’m OK with the size and weight of the SL when it is the right tool for the job.

Still images are my primary focus. But the need for video is there on occasion and can see it increasing moving forward.

I’m taking a wait and see approach. The SL 601 is a very capable camera for still images. I can continue to make it work for my needs. Probably for some years to come yet. (Only ever use single point AF and MF lenses.)

No intention of selling the SL 601 as long as it continues to remain useful for still images. Video might persuade me to look at adding an SL2-S to pair with the SL 601 at some point. But that’s a decision for when a real need arises. So as yet remain undecided and haven’t voted in the poll.

The new redesigned body introduced with the SL2 / SL2-S would be my biggest hesitation. I simply prefer the original SL 601. It’s been mentioned before, but the industrial design of the original SL 601 feels superior with its clean and simple execution and 4 button interface. The design of the original SL was a remarkable achievement that set a very high standard as the first model in this new range of cameras.

It looks like compromises have been made with the redesign of the SL2 / SL2-S body. The protruding rear screen (no longer flush with the body) and its change to 3 buttons. Seemingly borrowed from the CL parts bin and stuck on. The change from all aluminum unibody to construction with cleanly integrated strap lugs. Now just a decorative aluminum top plate which is not structurally integral to the camera body as it was with the SL. Resulting in the crude implementation of large strap lugs lower down on the side. The horseshoe collar around the lens mount also seems unnecessary and references old Single Lens Reflex cameras with mirror assemblies, which the SL series is not. The flat front facia of the original SL seemed to more clearly signify the distinction between mirrorless and SLR.

I can understand there are probably business reasons for these changes. Economies of scale using shared parts and overalll lower production costs. But as a consumer, all I see is the end product offered by the company. It feels like the bean counters stepped in and compromises were encouraged. The original SL seemed more in line with the professional S series. Where as the redesigned body seems to bring it a step closer to being an expendable digital commodity, destined for inevitable obsolescence. Although I recognize it still to be better than offerings from other manufactures.  

In time, the current excitement over the very recent incremental improvements in digital tech will have long been superseded and forgotten. When we look back with the benefit of a greater perspective afforded to us over time, the strength of the original SL’s industrial design will remain and possibly garner more appreciation. Especially as the first entry in this new range.

I feel I might skip this generation and continue with the SL 601 for as long as I can make it work. Possibly investing in more glass if anything. Prioritizing lenses is an old piece of advice in photography, but perhaps still some truth to it even in the digital age.

I’m a little fatigued by the never-ending upgrade cycle and short lifespan of digital bodies. My most recent decision was to purchase a brand new M-A instead and step away from the digital upgrade cycle for a bit. (Started on film pre-digital.)

Edited by J12
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18 hours ago, Slender said:

Did you updated your camera to 2.0 and SL lenses, too? Are you using adapters/foreign glass?

Of Course. Using Leica SL lenses no adapters ...... lots of people post about the problem.  I think Leica even spoke about it in an article or video. It’s a design flaw power issue they have no idea how to fix, so they created  the error message. Who ever heard of a camera that can’t high speed burst shoot at 3/4 full battery. It’s truly shameful!    Do you have an Sl2?  Use it on Photo shoot, then decide to high speed burst and the camera will error out. 

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5 hours ago, Jim B said:

Of Course. Using Leica SL lenses no adapters ...... lots of people post about the problem.  I think Leica even spoke about it in an article or video. It’s a design flaw power issue they have no idea how to fix, so they created  the error message. Who ever heard of a camera that can’t high speed burst shoot at 3/4 full battery. It’s truly shameful!    Do you have an Sl2?  Use it on Photo shoot, then decide to high speed burst and the camera will error out. 

I am sorry you are experimenting these issues so bad. Yes, SL2 is my system now for pro work (I was M only before... I do stills mostly, but developping the video side atm).
Coming from M only, I rarely snap anything faster than 2/3 fps anyway,. For video, I do get the power supply message but only when the battery is below 25%. It is still annoying of course, but for video I have been using the USB-C port to supply the camera with juice. So far so good...

I am sorry if this sounds silly, but have you tried resetting the camera after updating both body/lens firmware, the complete factory reset?

I wish leica would update their batteries with a similar form factor like Canon does for the immortal LPe6 platform...
 

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If one likes very, very special and shiny toys for christmas:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CI31S0jB-nZ/

you can then mount mini v-lock batteries! how cute... 😍 and you can power your atomos like this, too!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDBbNpACt4u/

Or USB-C with PD powerbanks in me pockets do just fine for hours and hours on the same battery. Otherwise I have 3 SL batteries (must have on set anyway, just in case).

Other would like to add the grip. Or make to order your very own D-TAP to faux/dummy SL battery cable. It exist for many other cameras...

All these options are great when the camera needs to be turned on for hours while setting up shots, multiple takes, or for extended interviews.

You dont need any of that for casual, "butterfly" or so called "chance" shooting. Keep it light.

Also the more familiar you get with the camera, the less juice you waste in the menus and reviewing stuff, and then magically battery life complaints tends to fade away from forums. It's always a big topic at most camera debuts b/c we spend to much time toying around 😅

 

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10 hours ago, Jim B said:

Of Course. Using Leica SL lenses no adapters ...... lots of people post about the problem.  I think Leica even spoke about it in an article or video. It’s a design flaw power issue they have no idea how to fix, so they created  the error message. Who ever heard of a camera that can’t high speed burst shoot at 3/4 full battery. It’s truly shameful!    Do you have an Sl2?  Use it on Photo shoot, then decide to high speed burst and the camera will error out. 

 

4 hours ago, Slender said:

I am sorry you are experimenting these issues so bad. Yes, SL2 is my system now for pro work (I was M only before... I do stills mostly, but developping the video side atm).
Coming from M only, I rarely snap anything faster than 2/3 fps anyway,. For video, I do get the power supply message but only when the battery is below 25%. It is still annoying of course, but for video I have been using the USB-C port to supply the camera with juice. So far so good...

I am sorry if this sounds silly, but have you tried resetting the camera after updating both body/lens firmware, the complete factory reset?

I wish leica would update their batteries with a similar form factor like Canon does for the immortal LPe6 platform...
 

I've had the camera for a year & it's really annoying. I hardly ever shoot in burst mode, but when I needed to, it happened this morning at about 50% battery level. I got the following message (it happens with both Leica SL & Sigma L mount lenses):

 

 

 

Edited by michali
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4 hours ago, michali said:

I've had the camera for a year & it's really annoying. I hardly ever shoot in burst mode, but when I needed to, it happened this morning at about 50% battery level. I got the following message (it happens with both Leica SL & Sigma L mount lenses):

 

the problem is the sigma L adapter. I stoped using it and rested the camera, I only using native lenses now and I am not getting the note anymore.

The only solution is a firmware fix, but most of all for now you need the vertical grip and extra battery. USB Power does not charge quick enough , even using the newer quick charge technology .

Let's face it, It is a flow!

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On 12/15/2020 at 3:00 AM, LUF Admin said:

Last week Leica Camera introduced the new Leica SL2-S:

Our question to you:

Are you interested in buying the Leica SL2-S?

Please vote above und discuss below.

Looking forward to your opinion!

I've been a fan of the Leica M system since l954 when my dad couldn't afford the new Leica M3.  The M3 cost $300 at the time.  I might've considered the Leica SL2 when it first came out because, with an adaptor, it did work with Leica M lenses.  I didn't trade my M10 in on an SL2 because, simply, I thought the SL2 was just ugly.  Why didn't Leica make the SL2 look like the R8 and the R9?  I still think the R8 and R9 are beautiful cameras.

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I really do like Leica but it seems like Deja Vu, a year on and they still haven’t sorted the battery warning issue with the SL2 and the AF has fallen behind even Panasonic, rather than try and fix all of this they then bring out the SL2-S as the ‘new hybrid’. You can already initial reports of woeful AF performance in video (worse than Panasonic). Still’s seem really superb of course but again they’ve just transferred the same now ‘bottom placed’ AF system.

I love my M’s and I’ve shot the SL2 all over the world, when I fist bought it the Canon R5 & R6 didn’t really exist so the main competition was the Sony’s. Superb AF and range of glass but woeful in everything else from build to menu’s. Along come Canon though and solve most of those, ergonomics wise still not quite a Leica SL2 but coming close and with vastly superior AF and video. It’s making me think and when an R5 is the same price as the SL2-S well ..........?

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On 12/17/2020 at 12:16 AM, Steven said:

By me and others. They perform exactly the same as the M series, EXCEPT, that there is Ibis, therefore they perform better. 

If this is true, then this is my next M-body, with the added bonus of being able to use autofocus lenses. The SL2-S is less expensive at full retail than a secondhand M10, even here in Australia.

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On 12/17/2020 at 4:00 PM, Jim B said:

Of Course. Using Leica SL lenses no adapters ...... lots of people post about the problem.  I think Leica even spoke about it in an article or video. It’s a design flaw power issue they have no idea how to fix, so they created  the error message. Who ever heard of a camera that can’t high speed burst shoot at 3/4 full battery. It’s truly shameful!    Do you have an Sl2?  Use it on Photo shoot, then decide to high speed burst and the camera will error out. 

This is verging on a dealbreaker for me, as I intend to use the SL2-S for sports and action photography. While I do a lot of the usual documentary, street, portraits and landscape, spending this much money means it needs to bring value to paid jobs. I sincerely hope this issue is fixed in the SL2-S, or it's off to the Canon R6 or even the Panasonic S1.

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On 12/17/2020 at 2:13 PM, J12 said:

The new redesigned body introduced with the SL2 / SL2-S would be my biggest hesitation. I simply prefer the original SL 601. It’s been mentioned before, but the industrial design of the original SL 601 feels superior with its clean and simple execution and 4 button interface. The design of the original SL was a remarkable achievement that set a very high standard as the first model in this new range of cameras.

It looks like compromises have been made with the redesign of the SL2 / SL2-S body. The protruding rear screen (no longer flush with the body) and its change to 3 buttons. Seemingly borrowed from the CL parts bin and stuck on. The change from all aluminum unibody to construction with cleanly integrated strap lugs. Now just a decorative aluminum top plate which is not structurally integral to the camera body as it was with the SL. Resulting in the crude implementation of large strap lugs lower down on the side. The horseshoe collar around the lens mount also seems unnecessary and references old Single Lens Reflex cameras with mirror assemblies, which the SL series is not. The flat front facia of the original SL seemed to more clearly signify the distinction between mirrorless and SLR.

I have to ask if you have handled and shot with a SL2 at all? I own neither, but have handled and shot with both for an hour or two each (thank you to my local shop) and the SL2 feels much better in my hands than the original SL. The SL feels blocky and sharp, whereas the SL2 sits much more nicely in the hand, despite having very similar dimensions. Something about the way the grips are shaped. And I prefer a few more buttons with labels, but that's a personal liking.

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I had the SL since launch, and have had the SL2 for a few months - TBH I didn't notice much difference in handholding, apart from a slight improvement to the finger grip. I used a handstrap with both, so rely on a comfortable finger grip. Maybe my hands are just the right size, but I didn't have a problem with the SL grip.

As to looks, I wasn't a great fan of the brutalist SL, though appreciated its form=function style.

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3 hours ago, Archiver said:

This is verging on a dealbreaker for me, as I intend to use the SL2-S for sports and action photography. While I do a lot of the usual documentary, street, portraits and landscape, spending this much money means it needs to bring value to paid jobs. I sincerely hope this issue is fixed in the SL2-S, or it's off to the Canon R6 or even the Panasonic S1.

From my experience with the SL2 and a brief play around with the SL2S, I'd say there isn't (today) much difference between either for Auto focus and, from using the SL2, isn't good enough for sports and action. Too many missed shots and it only really worked in perfect conditions. 

Thats more of an issue than the 3/4 battery "feature".

 

As for handing, having used the SL and SL2, I found the SL2 "feels" smaller as a result of the redesign, but like @LocalHero1953 it may jsut be that my mitts are the right size and shape. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, SJH said:

I really do like Leica but it seems like Deja Vu, a year on and they still haven’t sorted the battery warning issue with the SL2 and the AF has fallen behind even Panasonic, rather than try and fix all of this they then bring out the SL2-S as the ‘new hybrid’. You can already initial reports of woeful AF performance in video (worse than Panasonic). Still’s seem really superb of course but again they’ve just transferred the same now ‘bottom placed’ AF system.

I love my M’s and I’ve shot the SL2 all over the world, when I fist bought it the Canon R5 & R6 didn’t really exist so the main competition was the Sony’s. Superb AF and range of glass but woeful in everything else from build to menu’s. Along come Canon though and solve most of those, ergonomics wise still not quite a Leica SL2 but coming close and with vastly superior AF and video. It’s making me think and when an R5 is the same price as the SL2-S well ..........?

I am so on the fence.  My Leica store called and said that my SL2-S arrived and I can collect it tomorrow.  I picked up the R5 and the RF 50 1.2 last week as I wasn't completely happy with the AFc performance of the SL2 (there's a whole other thread about this which basically said not to use AFc).  The RF 50 1.2 on the r5 is very good.  There's something I still love better about my SL2 and APO Summicron lenses.  Is it worth keeping two systems for?  I'm not sure.  But I was hoping that the SL2-S would make me forget about the R5 and be wholly invested in Leica.  

So I'm not sure what I will do tomorrow morning when I'm supposed to pick up the SL2-S.  There's a part of me that knows the APO Summicron-SL glass is superb but the bodies aren't up to the AF performance where they need to be (for what I do).  As crazy as it seems, I'm almost thinking of selling the SL2 and keeping all my Leica glass, hoping that the next generation bodies will use PDAF.  There's no doubt that the glass will easily resolve whatever body Leica develops next.

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I wasn’t too thrilled about SL2.

My primary use for the SL body is wedding where I use with M glass. SL2 resolution allows cropping and allows using fewer lenses but the main issues where there where I hoped to be some improvements compared to the original SL.

I rarely shoot in low iso and my primary interests are good dr in high iso and the speediness of the camera.

None were great on SL2.

AF was also surprisingly terrible but that is not deal breaker as I mainly use M lenses on it.

Also battery life seemed to be even worse than in original SL with much discussed burst problems.

I’ve just picked up the SL2-S and while I can’t give any detailed impressions, the high iso dr and speediness of the body is noticeably better than in SL2.

I can take long bursts and playback the images immediately without any hiccups which is great on intense shootings.

DR seems to hold really well up to ISO 12800 which is crucial as SL glasses are bit slower than peers AF glasses. With f1.2-1.4 glasses I usually crank ISO up to 6400 and if SL2-S can take up to 12800 I can use slower Summicron-SL glasses as I was using faster lenses in darker environments.

I also really like the new lettering, I was never too fond the SL bodies big noticeable logo size in the front of the camera. Now while it’s still big, it’s really discrete on normal use.

During the Christmas break I’ll test it against SL2, M10R, M10P and M10M and report back.

...but right now I’m puzzled with questions.

1. Why Leica didn’t use sensor used in M10R on SL2 and why SL2 sensor where especially in DR is much worse than in Panasonic where it uses basically same sensor. It’s probably worst in that regard to any 40+mpx bodies in currently available by large margin.

2. How it’s possible that SL2-S has improved so much on the battery life

3. Was the SL2-S a merely “bug fix” for the SL2?

...well time will tell.

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50 minutes ago, oka said:

I wasn’t too thrilled about SL2.

My primary use for the SL body is wedding where I use with M glass. SL2 resolution allows cropping and allows using fewer lenses but the main issues where there where I hoped to be some improvements compared to the original SL.

I rarely shoot in low iso and my primary interests are good dr in high iso and the speediness of the camera.

None were great on SL2.

AF was also surprisingly terrible but that is not deal breaker as I mainly use M lenses on it.

Also battery life seemed to be even worse than in original SL with much discussed burst problems.

I’ve just picked up the SL2-S and while I can’t give any detailed impressions, the high iso dr and speediness of the body is noticeably better than in SL2.

I can take long bursts and playback the images immediately without any hiccups which is great on intense shootings.

DR seems to hold really well up to ISO 12800 which is crucial as SL glasses are bit slower than peers AF glasses. With f1.2-1.4 glasses I usually crank ISO up to 6400 and if SL2-S can take up to 12800 I can use slower Summicron-SL glasses as I was using faster lenses in darker environments.

I also really like the new lettering, I was never too fond the SL bodies big noticeable logo size in the front of the camera. Now while it’s still big, it’s really discrete on normal use.

During the Christmas break I’ll test it against SL2, M10R, M10P and M10M and report back.

...but right now I’m puzzled with questions.

1. Why Leica didn’t use sensor used in M10R on SL2 and why SL2 sensor where especially in DR is much worse than in Panasonic where it uses basically same sensor. It’s probably worst in that regard to any 40+mpx bodies in currently available by large margin.

2. How it’s possible that SL2-S has improved so much on the battery life

3. Was the SL2-S a merely “bug fix” for the SL2?

...well time will tell.

I've been thinking about it all night.  I think I'm going to collect the SL2-S tomorrow morning.  For tripod and architecture/landscape use the SL2 is an amazing camera.  From what I've seen so far from the SL2-S files I think it's closer to the original SL I had with the added benefit of low light performance for moving subjects, IBIS and slightly better color saturation.

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20 hours ago, Archiver said:

I have to ask if you have handled and shot with a SL2 at all? I own neither, but have handled and shot with both for an hour or two each (thank you to my local shop) and the SL2 feels much better in my hands than the original SL. The SL feels blocky and sharp, whereas the SL2 sits much more nicely in the hand, despite having very similar dimensions. Something about the way the grips are shaped. And I prefer a few more buttons with labels, but that's a personal liking.

Yes I’ve had the chance to pick up and play with the SL2. It’s not so much the feel of the camera in the hands. I was fine with the original SL and the SL2 also feels comfortable to hold.

My comment was on how the industrial design of the SL is very cohesive and clean in execution. A few of the revisions made to the SL2 body look like a muddle of parts that don’t really belong. Perhaps a very small point in the grand scheme of things, but enough of an irritation to dampen my enthusiasm for the camera.  

Spec wise both the SL2 and SL2-S look good and appear to be steps in the right direction for mirrorless bodies. Either the SL2 or SL2-S are probably good propositions for those new to the system. Personally, I’m not sure I can justify either yet as I already own an SL, and it remains a very good camera.

We are very much in the era of diminishing returns when it comes to improvements in digital camera tech. With the global shift towards sustainability being promoted and supported by many companies large and small, maybe we should try harder to make things last. Considering both of these points, then perfecting the design of a camera body could well give it a longer life beyond each incremental and short-lived improvement in tech specs.

It was no doubt the design and quality of cameras like the M3 that ensured the M line continued as long as it has. People still value these cameras and want to shoot with them, as they’re simply a joy to use. Even if long outdated and superseded by newer models.

I know you can’t really compare film with digital. But, at what point do we reach a stage where the general performance of digital is good enough, and it becomes more about the shooting experience or unique characteristics of the camera or sensor?

Many of the tech / performance orientated specs and features being touted by manufacturers are increasingly crutches. Conveniences, yes, but not really as essential as they’d like everyone to believe. Just look back through history at the decades of great photographs and films made with much lesser equipment than being offered today.

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6 hours ago, Dr. G said:

I am so on the fence.  My Leica store called and said that my SL2-S arrived and I can collect it tomorrow.  I picked up the R5 and the RF 50 1.2 last week as I wasn't completely happy with the AFc performance of the SL2 (there's a whole other thread about this which basically said not to use AFc).  The RF 50 1.2 on the r5 is very good.  There's something I still love better about my SL2 and APO Summicron lenses.  Is it worth keeping two systems for?  I'm not sure.  But I was hoping that the SL2-S would make me forget about the R5 and be wholly invested in Leica.  

So I'm not sure what I will do tomorrow morning when I'm supposed to pick up the SL2-S.  There's a part of me that knows the APO Summicron-SL glass is superb but the bodies aren't up to the AF performance where they need to be (for what I do).  As crazy as it seems, I'm almost thinking of selling the SL2 and keeping all my Leica glass, hoping that the next generation bodies will use PDAF.  There's no doubt that the glass will easily resolve whatever body Leica develops next.

I feel your pain on this!! I love my APO lenses and the ergonomics of the SL2 but more and more I just have this nagging feeling that the launch of the SL2-S has been botched and it highlights the flaws of the SL2/-S system right now. Why not launch the camera with the actual firmware update and at the same time provide v3 to SL2 users, the flagship model. Where they are now is that they’ve handed the camera over to all the reviewers and outside the ‘fans of Leica’ reviews time and time again the AF issues come up. They also bring up and highlight the fact it’s not even on a par with Panasonic now.

This leave me wondering whether they’ll ever sort this on the current range (plus the battery issue which 12 months on is just daft) and that the R5, whilst not quite up to Leica ergonomics, has closed the gap considerably and is way better than the Sony’s have been. I have both and M10R and M10M which I adore (as well as most of the M glass of note) but I to am on the fence on my relationship with the current SL camera’s. Sort out the battery issue and provide a really decent AF firmware update for both the SL2 and SL2-S in early 2021 (and not nearly 2 years on from the launch of the SL2) and I could see myself wedded to this for years to come, if not the R6 & R5 combo are looking very attractive alongside my M’s.

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