hansvons Posted March 15, 2021 Share #161 Posted March 15, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 32 minutes ago, Steven said: I love this camera. May I ask which lens ? I really dig the colours and contrast too. Comparing with the Alexa isn't an inappropriate stretch. 24-90 Elmarit. Best photo zoom I ever had in my hands, and it's quick in AF mode. Good workhorse for hybrid use! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 15, 2021 Posted March 15, 2021 Hi hansvons, Take a look here Is the SL2-S the perfect hybrid camera? To me, the answer is.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hansvons Posted March 15, 2021 Share #162 Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Slender said: Thank you @hansvons. Looking at the green coffee table, we do see a scaling down of noise going from 1600 (noisier) to 3200 (cleaner). Same strategy as the SL2. Interesting to see that the processing logic appears to be the same regarless of sensor technology. Upon closer inspection, I agree that the difference between ISO 1600 and ISO 3200 is negligible. Whether that's due to a dual sensitivity strategy or something else, e.g. a non-linear system with a steepening curve towards higher ISO, I can't say. But I can say this: the colour remains astonishing saturated all the way up to ISO 6400, from a video perspective, a revelation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share #163 Posted March 15, 2021 3 hours ago, hansvons said: the colour remains astonishing saturated all the way up to ISO 6400, from a video perspective, a revelation. I've been saying for 3 months, since I bought the SL2S on day one of its release, that it DESTROYS the A7SIII in low light. No one believes, as usual. At first at least. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Kuzemchik Posted March 19, 2021 Share #164 Posted March 19, 2021 I got my rental SL2-S. I seems to like the handling, colors and available functionality of SL2-S. Autofocus is wonky, but I don't use it anyway. Linear focus is all I need and latest lens update offer that. Although moire is bothering me. I hoped that super35 mode will be better, but it doesn't seem to be the case. So now I'm curious if SL2 can give similar experience if I use its super35 mode. My understanding is that SL2 has worse high ISO performance, but most of stuff I do has lights. Does anyone have both SL2 and SL2-S or can answer these questions: How different are colors between SL2 and SL2-S if shoot in L-Log or HLG? How hard to match them? Does super35 on SL2 have better moire resistance? Are there any other video limitation on SL2 (except 30 minutes limit) comparing to SL2-S? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted March 19, 2021 Share #165 Posted March 19, 2021 Hello, SL2 owner here. For video, are we talking moire or aliasing? The pixel "mixing" (The word Leica uses to describe what is not clearly defined as over/down sampling with binning/line skipping.... not clear at all) causes aliasing, whereas a fine pattern misaligning with the sensor causes moire... which would - i my understanding - show when using pixel-to-pixel readout of the sensor. The 5K mode of the SL2 sensor is a "full scan" (Leica terms) mode, and therefore there is no in-camera scaling of the image = no aliasing whatsoever when properly displayed to scale on a screen/projector. Moire could perhaps could be seen on extremely (extreeeeemely) fine details of fabric in that mode. In other word: a diff filter or an OLPF could reduce moire. But in camera-scalling causes aliasing regardless. However (again, if I understand correctly), if the processor has less scaling down to do (from 6K to 4K instead of 8K to 4K.... or better still in the SL2s case from 4.15 -top of my head-... to 4.096K whilst in APS-C), logically aliasing should be lesser. On the other hand when in low-light, from what I saw the SL2s behaves like the S5: noise looks better in FF than s35. For the SL2 I need to do more testing, but it is said to be the opposite.... Grabs from the User manual from both cameras to get one's head around image surface, scaling method...etc Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/316065-is-the-sl2-s-the-perfect-hybrid-camera-to-me-the-answer-is/?do=findComment&comment=4163809'>More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted March 19, 2021 Share #166 Posted March 19, 2021 hey @Slender Do you ever use the 5K? my understanding that it is more for anamorphic capture. I shoot the SL2 in still and video and I have notices Moire in fashion catalogue shoots, in both stills and video. But it is very rare that I don't worry about it too much. I use C4K 24P in L-LOG most of the time Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted March 19, 2021 Share #167 Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello @Photoworks it is indeed with the intent in the mind of (the most interesting man in the world) the person who: - owns a SL2 - shoot video with it - and use anamorphic lenses (real ones) on top of that. I bet a pretty rare bird that person is. Sirui 1.33x lenses are made with 16:9 ratio in mind... to stretch this 4:3 you will need to upgrade to Vazen and above (1.78x....2x....) I have to say I like it as it is with the intent of cropping latter in post ( and the SL2 lets you very conveniently choose a display frame for aspect ratio + safety zone). Gives you a safety margin up/down.... use-full when using strong ratios like 1/2.35... You can save that actress haircut in post 😄 Image looks good w/o aliasing at all, and is even cooler when oversampled to 4K (my taste) if you like. Its 10 bits (l-Log, you can't choose anything else) in 420 but looks really good even at 6400iso (and if you oversample, "noise" gets even better and very pretty grain actually -my taste-). The Long-GOP is HEVC .h265 compression codec strangely plays back very well on my mac with the standard spacebar preview - no need to open VLC or Kino - (but editing in FCP is choppy: doesn't matter you can convert there or in Kino.... just make sure about the Legalization process). As per Leica's statement and my observation, in s35 the already very good rolling shutter become even better (14ms in FF for SL2, estimated below 10ms in s35), so surely this "pixel-to-pixel "Open Gate" s35 4:3 5K benefits from that as well Otherwise I use the same settings as you "because they are the best on paper" and will record to an Atomos. The 5k will not as of today. Depends on the mood. Edited March 19, 2021 by Slender 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
120ince Posted March 19, 2021 Share #168 Posted March 19, 2021 Hello, And what about the batteries in Video mode? Do they last more time on the SL2-S model than on the SL2? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted March 19, 2021 Share #169 Posted March 19, 2021 Hello, what about the SL2/SL2S overheating when filming for a long time ? Best, JM Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted March 19, 2021 Author Share #170 Posted March 19, 2021 48 minutes ago, JMF said: Hello, what about the SL2/SL2S overheating when filming for a long time ? Best, JM Haven’t had that issue at all with the sl2s. The body gets warm but far from overheating alerts in my experience. Might be my shooting style though. I have a habit of always turning off the camera between shots/scenes. As a reference, I’ve never had a camera overheat on me, not even the Canon R5, and i mainly owned that camera during a long summer. @Slender might be able to give you a more objective answer. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted March 19, 2021 Share #171 Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) Hello Personally haven't got this issue so far. I think you would fill your SD card or empty your juice before that to be honest. Battery life when filming with SL2 is frankly not the most endurant thing. However when supplemented even by a basic, not PD rated, powerbank and USB cable, it drains the bank first whilst minimising the impact on internal battery. The best for wannabe feature filmmakers would be to have a dummy (do DC/D-Tap cable) battery like EVERY OTHER CAMERA MANUFACTURER OUT THERE.... Leica if you are listening... I think @Photoworks even studied the feasability/cost of making your own. I am sure someone well "connected" could make it happen either by whispering into Leica's ears or lauching their own manufacturing in China... seriously. Leica specifically boasted about the SL2 built w/o a fan and yet not subject to overheating in Film and Digital times at launch. SL2s with a smaller sensor to process the output from should behave well, too. If you externalise your recording (and screen+EVF turned OFF) with an Atomos, its really nice because you can bypass the "low power no 4K" warning gag entirely until battery dies off completly. Links: https://www.fdtimes.com/2019/11/06/leica-sl2/ https://2stxv23ezngh2b8peu3esf6u-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/98FDTimes-1.16-Leica-SL2.pdf https://www.fdtimes.com/2020/12/10/leica-sl2-s/ PS: the S1H now is even more capable (ProRes Raw, DnxHr, BRAW... netflix approved) and is offered with a FREE NinjaV until the end of the month... and its L mount. Just so you know Edited March 19, 2021 by Slender 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted March 19, 2021 Share #172 Posted March 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, Slender said: Hello Personally haven't got this issue so far. I think you would fill your SD card or empty your juice before that to be honest. Battery life when filming with SL2 is frankly not the most endurant thing. However when supplemented even by a basic, not PD rated, powerbank and USB cable, it drains the bank first whilst minimising the impact on internal battery. The best for wannabe feature filmmakers would be to have a dummy (do DC/D-Tap cable) battery like EVERY OTHER CAMERA MANUFACTURER OUT THERE.... Leica if you are listening... I think @Photoworks even studied the feasability/cost of making your own. I am sure someone well "connected" could make it happen either by whispering into Leica's ears or lauching their own manufacturing in China... seriously. Leica specifically boasted about the SL2 built w/o a fan and yet not subject to overheating in Film and Digital times at launch. SL2s with a smaller sensor to process the output from should behave well, too. If you externalise your recording (and screen+EVF turned OFF) with an Atomos, its really nice because you can bypass the "low power no 4K" warning gag entirely until battery dies off completly. Links: https://www.fdtimes.com/2019/11/06/leica-sl2/ https://2stxv23ezngh2b8peu3esf6u-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/98FDTimes-1.16-Leica-SL2.pdf https://www.fdtimes.com/2020/12/10/leica-sl2-s/ PS: the S1H now is even more capable (ProRes Raw, DnxHr, BRAW... netflix approved) and is offered with a FREE NinjaV until the end of the month... and its L mount. Just so you know I have gotten the SL2 hand grip and 10 batteries in total . I have tested 4K with MC-21 adapter and the problem does not come up anymore until the power is almost 10% in both batteries. Downside is that you can not hot swap the battery in the handgrip. So this is not exactly a solution if you using the camera for streaming or long time lapses . I check with Leica and there is a technical limitation. The solution at this moment is USB-C fast charge powerbanks . in this case the internal battery with depleted very slowly. Leica Dummy battery would be a solution, something you can attach to DC or to a TP connection battery. They made one for the S006 camera, why not? Reddotforum streams on YouTube with SL2 and SL2-s cameras in 4K L-LOG to a PC and the WEB, they didn't seam to have any overheating issues down in Florida. They mentioned that they where looking into making a dummy battery too. Not sure how commercial of a product it can be without running into Leica infringement issues. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
120ince Posted March 19, 2021 Share #173 Posted March 19, 2021 Thank you@Slender and @Photoworksfor your answers and all this information. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansvons Posted March 20, 2021 Share #174 Posted March 20, 2021 11 hours ago, 120ince said: Hello, And what about the batteries in Video mode? Do they last more time on the SL2-S model than on the SL2? With the SL2-S you can fill a 256GB card with more than 80min UHD 422 video with one battery and 25% of battery life left. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansvons Posted March 20, 2021 Share #175 Posted March 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Slender said: PS: the S1H now is even more capable (ProRes Raw, DnxHr, BRAW... netflix approved) and is offered with a FREE NinjaV until the end of the month... and its L mount. Just so you know But the colours, the skin tones... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted March 20, 2021 Share #176 Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, hansvons said: But the colours, the skin tones... I, a ferocious Leica Ayatollah, would have to agree and support this: Leica (call it color science if you will) files works great most of the time "out of the box". If you expose properly, you don't need a file (I am talking pictures here) that can survive +5 stops of shadow push or -3 of highlight pull (did I mention the HDR rapid mode works wonder handheld for ridiculously extreme contrasty scenes? Makes color very intense w/o ridiculous "typical" HDR pushing). Therefore it is my religious duty to be the annoying voice at the back of the (online forum) room reminding people comparing Leica 14bits DNGs to 16bits medium format cameras files or whatnot else from the more technologically advanced Land of the Rising Sun companies that, if you know what you are doing with your Leica, you should be fine most of the time and not need to do crazy color/exposure manipulations, and get what you mentioned relatively reliably: great colours and look (all being very subjective). And then you will find people arguing that C1 or LR changes everything down the pipeline.... However for video, if you really want to take things far with editing and fine tuning your images, perhaps if you are the kind of person making your own Luts and gradings, you have a vision for the mood and tone of every scene... even make money off producing video... I can't help but think that the S1H benefits from a big list of pluses I mentioned elsewhere IF you want to stay in the L mount alliance and keep things relatively simple with form factor and keep the ability to shoot stills on the side. With Raw you can indeed choose your ISO/WB after the fact, essentialy apply the log of your choice, and then any lut you care to imagine... pretty much. So in resume, if you care about video first and then stills on the side, the S1H makes a lot of sense. If however one assumes that, like the majority of us here (like me) you are a still image maker at heart and you are intrigued by video on the side, then yeah the SL2 platform makes for a powerfull yet simple way to access very good looking imagery in motion that don't need (or can handle some would say) a lot of post-prod input... as long as you did your exposure/wb attentively. Edited March 20, 2021 by Slender 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted March 20, 2021 Share #177 Posted March 20, 2021 12 hours ago, hansvons said: But the colours, the skin tones... Dr. Kaufman said that Leica produces color to European taste, most other cameras to Japanese taste Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/316065-is-the-sl2-s-the-perfect-hybrid-camera-to-me-the-answer-is/?do=findComment&comment=4164548'>More sharing options...
BernardC Posted March 21, 2021 Share #178 Posted March 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Photoworks said: Dr. Kaufman said that Leica produces color to European taste, most other cameras to Japanese taste Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I took a Cibachrome workshop in uni. The instructor asked "how many types of colours are there?" We all made guesses like warm/cool/saturated. "Wrong! There are three types of colour: Kodak, Fuji, Agfa." 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted March 21, 2021 Share #179 Posted March 21, 2021 12 hours ago, BernardC said: I took a Cibachrome workshop in uni. The instructor asked "how many types of colours are there?" We all made guesses like warm/cool/saturated. "Wrong! There are three types of colour: Kodak, Fuji, Agfa." I suppose colors are fading! Agfa is gone, Kodak Next? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amal Posted May 22, 2021 Share #180 Posted May 22, 2021 On 3/15/2021 at 6:13 PM, Steven said: I've been saying for 3 months, since I bought the SL2S on day one of its release, that it DESTROYS the A7SIII in low light. No one believes, as usual. At first at least. Hi Steven, for a short film, which non Leica lens would you recomend for video (MF) on the SL2-S ? I assume a Leica one would be > $5k So how about other M lens such as voigtlander? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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