SL Lenses firmware 2.0

[jonoslack]

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43 minutes ago, jrp said:

So the firmware doesn't update the Summilux (or the 16-35mm)?  (It has a reference to the "45mm F2.8 DG DN | Contemporary 01", but won't update it from the latest firmware on Sigma's site.)

Should update the Lieca 50 'lux and 16-35 (don't have them) but of course not the Sigma 45

[michali]

On 12/15/2020 at 9:41 PM, helged said:

On S1R, in the Menu "Focus Ring Control" (*), you can set the focus to "Linear", and in "Set", you can set the Focus Ring Control to 90/120/150/180/210/240/270/300/330/360/Maximum degrees (this holds for SL70-Cron). So full control of manual focus on S1R.

(*) Found in the third main menu, then "Lens / Others" menu.

Helge, a question, please confirm that with the zooms (24-90 & 90-280) on the SL2 there's no "Linear" function, only "Focus Throw" can be adjusted (which I've done).

Thanks Mike

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[helged]

36 minutes ago, michali said:

Helge, a question, please confirm that with the zooms (24-90 & 90-280) on the SL2 there's no "Linear" function, only "Focus Throw" can be adjusted (which I've done).

Thanks Mike

Hi Mike. Correct, the only menu option is to change the focus throw on the two long zooms. Strange, since I (think I) remember that there were two options for the long zooms during FW update: First "Linear", thereafter "Focus Throw".... Either I recall wrongly, or there are some FW glitches, somewhere... 

[LocalHero1953]

Do you mean that it is non-linear focus but with a delimited throw angle? How does that work?
It would make sense only if setting a focus throw limit automatically made it linear. 

[helged]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Do you mean that it is non-linear focus but with a delimited throw angle? How does that work?
It would make sense only if setting a focus throw limit automatically made it linear. 

Agree, I will do some tests later today. The strange thing is that the menu header appears to have changed after the initial update. Or it is done with purpose. Hard to know.

[helged]

After a little testing: Manual focus set to "Standard" equals the old/default accelerated manual focus. When MF is set to one of the prescribed throw angles, the focus is linear. For extreme precision, set the focus throw to "Maximum" - and you can turn the focus ring 'forever' to get focus... 

Edited December 20, 2020 by helged

[michali]

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1 hour ago, helged said:

After a little testing: Manual focus set to "Standard" equals the old/default accelerated manual focus. When MF is set to one of the prescribed throw angles, the focus is linear. For extreme precision, set the focus throw to "Maximum" - and you can turn the focus ring 'forever' to get focus... 

Thank you Helge, appreciate the explanation. This update is a vast improvement on having to go around in circles trying to find focus.

Best Mike

[simon_hsn]

Can anyone comment on the improved stabilization performance with IBIS cameras?

I am asking because I am currently debating whether the 24-90 is worth it for me against the much cheaper Sigma 24-70. If the stabilization is notably better on on the 24-90 in conjunction with IBIS this might be the deciding factor for me, besides the obvious optical quality gains.

[helged]

15 minutes ago, simon_hsn said:

Can anyone comment on the improved stabilization performance with IBIS cameras?

I am asking because I am currently debating whether the 24-90 is worth it for me against the much cheaper Sigma 24-70. If the stabilization is notably better on on the 24-90 in conjunction with IBIS this might be the deciding factor for me, besides the obvious optical quality gains.

The main stabilising factor is IBIS, say 4+ stops. OIS may add a little, max 1 stop, I would say. So IBIS is a game changer, OIS on the 24-90 less so. 

The only lens I know about with 4-ish OIS gain is the Canon 400 mm f4 DO v2. 

[Jeff S]

12 minutes ago, simon_hsn said:

Can anyone comment on the improved stabilization performance with IBIS cameras?

I am asking because I am currently debating whether the 24-90 is worth it for me against the much cheaper Sigma 24-70. If the stabilization is notably better on on the 24-90 in conjunction with IBIS this might be the deciding factor for me, besides the obvious optical quality gains.

To be clear, your question has nothing to do with the lens FW update, which is the thread topic.  The effect of IBIS and OIS was, however, discussed in the following thread.  I linked to David Farkas’ article, which cites an additional half stop or so due to OIS.  But I haven’t seen this confirmed elsewhere, or indicated by Leica (the SL2 doesn’t allow choice... just stabilization on or off, unlike the Panasonic counterpart cameras). Whether each individual can similarly obtain this performance is questionable, let alone indicate how a non-Leica lens of different size and configuration might perform.  
 

The best way to know would of course be to conduct your own tests.

 

Jeff

[simon_hsn]

52 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

To be clear, your question has nothing to do with the lens FW update, which is the thread topic.  The effect of IBIS and OIS was, however, discussed in the following thread.  I linked to David Farkas’ article, which cites an additional half stop or so due to OIS.  But I haven’t seen this confirmed elsewhere, or indicated by Leica (the SL2 doesn’t allow choice... just stabilization on or off, unlike the Panasonic counterpart cameras). Whether each individual can similarly obtain this performance is questionable, let alone indicate how a non-Leica lens of different size and configuration might perform.  
 

The best way to know would of course be to conduct your own tests.

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff, your response is a little rude. Let us be a little more kind in those times...

Thanks for linking the threat, even though I already know it.

For your lack of knowledge and to be clear: my question is perfectly relating to the threat: Please go ahead and read the release notes of the lens firmware 2.0. Let me quote it for you: 

Lens 2.0 firmware Improvements
Linear MF
The speed of the MF setting is adjustable. Example: for a setting to 90°, the entire focus range will be run through when the focus setting ring is turned by one quarter. A full turn of the focus setting ring will be needed for a setting to 360°. Smaller angles allow faster adjustments, while larger angles offer more precise settings.
This function is especially interesting for videographers and cinematographer.
Improvement BIS-behavior
The lenses are optimized to work better with any camera with included BIS

As you can read here, 1 of 2 things that have been improved is how the lens works with IBIS. I know exactly what I am talking about as this sounds like improvements I know from my Panasonic GH5. When the camera was initially released, it had 5,5 stops of stabilitzation when a OIS lens was attached. Later, Panasonic released a lens firmware update, which improved how a lens with OIS (12-60 mm in that case) worked together with the IBIS system, effectively improving the combined stabilization performance to 6,5 stops (up from 5,5). They called that “DUAL-IS 2”.

Hence, my questions whether anyone experienced some improvements with the new firmware 2.0 and 24-90 lens and SL2/-S cameras. Thanks.

Edited December 20, 2020 by simon_hsn

[Jeff S]

Sorry, no offense intended; I was trying to help by providing available information.  As to your specific lens comparison question, the best answer will come by actual tests using those two lenses, whether or not the FW update generally relates.  And, you might be interested in the rumored SL 28-70 f2.8, which has been discussed elsewhere, supposedly coming early 2021.

Jeff

[simon_hsn]

Thanks Jeff, your info is always much appreciated! I was just curious about this 2nd point of the 2.0 lens firmware release notes. Testing will bring the answer indeed

[Jeff S]

Ideally your own tests, as shooting situations, techniques, etc, vary, as might individual results.  Just as when shooting without stabilization.

Jeff

[Steven]

3 hours ago, simon_hsn said:

your response is a little rude

Not sure what you found rude in the answer of someone trying to help you 😂 sensitive times indeed. 

Cheers

[scott kirkpatrick]

Hey, chill just a bit, folks,  He's right that the skimpy explanatory literature on lens firmware does mention improvements in stabilization without explaining what sort of improvements in what settings to expect.  In fact nobody has noticed these improvements, as far I can see.  We've all been more interested in the change to linear and predictable focusing response, which can be set to respond at different rates.  The firmware can install itself in most recent SL lenses (but not all, it seems) on any of the SLs,.  But the full range of rates of focus response seems to work only on the SL2 and SL2S.  There is some effect on other L-mount cameras.  SL (and CL?) see a linear response instead of the previous variable rate response.  The technology seems to have come over from the S1 and S1R, which already had this feature for its lenses.  Now Leica lenses work this way on S1s, too. 

Image stabilization is a black art.  On forums like this people can tell you their experience, but if it doesn't match the focal length and image distance that you want to use, this is useless advice.  The number of stops that are gained is a marketing fiction, based on clamping the camera to a test stand, with a 50 mm lens and a target at two meters distance and executing a standard sequence of movements.  What you probably want to know is how slow a shutter speed can you use with your usual lens and subjects and still get sharp pictures.  The only way to find out is to try it yourself.  And you can improve it with practice, and boast to the next person who asks.

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[wjdrijfhout]

Very happy with this update. I just couldn’t get my muscle memory to learn ‘how fast’ equaled ‘how far’ for the focus throw. Not only do we have linear behavior, but a plethora of choices for focus throw angles to choose from. Thank you Leica! Let’s hope the 16-35 and 50 Lux will get the update too.

As reported earlier in this thread, the clicking sound during zooming with the 24-90 (something related to the variable aperture that some lenses suffered from) is gone as well. Super!

One other thing I had hoped that was solved, reading the second item mentioned in the release notes on OIS, would be OIS of the 90-280 on the TL2, but unfortunately that is still not working.

 

[Steven]

6 minutes ago, wjdrijfhout said:

Very happy with this update. I just couldn’t get my muscle memory to learn ‘how fast’ equaled ‘how far’ for the focus throw. Not only do we have linear behavior, but a plethora of choices for focus throw angles to choose from. Thank you Leica! Let’s hope the 16-35 and 50 Lux will get the update too.

As reported earlier in this thread, the clicking sound during zooming with the 24-90 (something related to the variable aperture that some lenses suffered from) is gone as well. Super!

One other thing I had hoped that was solved, reading the second item mentioned in the release notes on OIS, would be OIS of the 90-280 on the TL2, but unfortunately that is still not working.

 

<so focusing an SL now feels exactly like a mechanical M lens? 

[wjdrijfhout]

Close. It doesn't have hard-stops on either side, so you won't have that tactile feedback on where you are. On the other hand you have the focus-depth info in the top display, pretty handy for hyperfocal distance shooting etc.

Another big difference is that an SL lens is always focused at maximum aperture and closes aperture at shutter release. The M-lenses are great to focus on an SL wide-open, but a bit more trickier if you use f/11 or so. And open aperture, focus, close aperture, shoot is a bit tedious. On the other hand, Leica glass deserves to be shot wide-open....

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by wjdrijfhout

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[Chuck Albertson]

The lads on the Red Dot Forum said they would have a post on the SL lens firmware update sometime this week.