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If you have both: when and why 50 APO or Summilux?


Robert Blanko

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Dear Leica enthusiasts,

As I have so far only the 50 Summilux (ASPH) (which I really like a lot), I am curious to learn from those using (or have used in the past) both if both lenses commonly coexist in your gear setup.
And, more important, for which purpose do you use the APO Summicron instead of the Summilux or vice versa and why?

If you would have to select only one, which would you select?

Best,

RB

Edited by Robert Blanko
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As owner of the Summilux, the Apo is still high on the “wanted list”. It is simply a lens with different characteristics.

I have to be patient and collect some more funds (and convince the wife that new furniture is less a necessity of life than a new APO 50, being my third 50).

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I had both, but chose the 50APO over the 50lux asph to keep long term. They co-existed for about a year together. 

During the time together:

- I used the 50lux asph for portraits (more background blur and more character in the shots usually means happier subjects as people are suckers for thin DOF...I am too) and lower light. On paper it is not much bigger than the 50APO and plenty sharp (i don't think anyone really needs ultra sharpness at 1.4), so during shoots I didn't feel I was paying a huge penalty for the extra stop.

- I used the 50APO mostly for personal shooting and that strong microcontrast + character-less 50mm pics especially in situations where the thinner DOF isn't required, for example experimenting tighter cityscapes, shooting details and textures, "reportage" with context (depends on mood)

Why I kept the 50APO? I'm doing more shooting for myself rather than for others/paid shoots now. If I do portraits with a 50mm, the 50APO more than suffices for me. Bokeh is smooth, un-distracting and most of the time people can't tell the difference anyway. It is smaller in hand than the 50lux too (surprisingly, because on paper it doesn't seem so). And I love bringing it out because it renders pics which still make me go "wow" - the detail and clarity are amazing and I'm seeing things I don't normally see in similar pics taken by other lenses (even on then 24mp M240). People use the term "medium format look" to describe the 50APO images, and I think that encapsulates the look well.

If I could recommend one of the current 50mms to do it all, it would be the 50lux. Me keeping the 50APO is not a rational choice based on cost or speed. I just wanted to keep 2 50mms and I wasn't going to touch my Noct f1, so on top of the above reasons I felt the lux was closer to the Noct than the APO was.

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I would put it like this: the better lens is the enemy of the good lens, until one realises that allegedly "better" is only some difference by degree. You can happily stick with your Summilux and not bother about other distractions. I ended up with a handful of Leica 50ies over the years. The funny thing is: whenever I attach one to a camera, I do not miss the others and simply shoot. Having said that, the 50, that really makes a difference vs. the others is the Noctilux 0.95. In particular on a film M loaded with b&w film. 

Edited by Arrow
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I bought the APO about 2 years ago, and I’ve had the ‘lux asph for about 15 years.

The ‘lux asph 50 was my go-everywhere Lens, and particularly for travel : you have a very good, still very compact, and 1.4 Lens. I took probably 80% of my shots with this Lens.

Since I got the APO, the APO 50 sits on my M10M almost all the time, bokeh is smoother, sharpness and clarity are in another league, especially at close distances where the APO shines.

I haven’t sold the ‘lux asph as I would probably use it for travel when we can travel again...

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I would like to propose the following: Post an image that was taken with the Lux and the same composition with same settings taken with the APO. This should be done as a blind test. Post the 2 pictures here.

But I think that we had this already in this forum. The differences were minimal to none. And if in some corners of the background one could make out a difference then it was still not clear which rendering was nicer, the rendering ofthe Lux or the APO.

Imagine you hand in a photograph for an exhibition that should be selected by a jury. Does somebody think that the APO has a better chance to win? The 2 lenses are in the same league. 

Well this is my opinion. I work a lot with my photographs in Lightroom. Often I make 50 steps or even much more to get the result I want. I say that to tell you that I have very high standards for myself. Its not that I do not look. I like then prints of 66x100cm. For most people (that look at my photographs) composition is essential and not some undefined detail in the background of a photograph. I use a Canon 5-family with many Canon lenses (mainly for commissioned assignements) then I use the M with 7 lenses by now and then I use the Q2. But with all these lenses I can come to results that I really like and normally nobody can tell me what lens I used for a specific photograph. Generally I must say that I like fast lenses. To come back to the theme: I would take a lux before I go for a Cron. You can not compensate speed with anything. Often weight matters to me (hiking etc). For these instances I like very light lenses as a 50mm Summarit that I love after I thought for a long time that Summarit is second class. But its not and now they stop the range 😩

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31 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

I would like to propose the following: Post an image that was taken with the Lux and the same composition with same settings taken with the APO. This should be done as a blind test. Post the 2 pictures here.

 

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Summilux 50mm ASPH was one of my first M lenses which I used with film and still use with digital cameras.  APO Summicron came much later, bought together with M246.  As post #2 by LCT, Summilux comes handy when light is in short supply, usually nighttime photography with M246.

If I am to keep only one it would be APO, actually regret selling Elmar M 50mm f2.8 which was optically excellent  and more than adequate for daylight photography.

If I was to start thinking about buying either of the two I would wait for Voigtländer M mount APO 50mm f2 which currently exist in Sony E mount.

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Thank you for all your interesting replies and your personal views so far!

I just also found a comparison of a bunch of 50 mm Leica lenses including the Lux and APO which allows to get an impression of the different rendering and bokeh. https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2018/8/6/leica-50mm-noctilux-summilux-summicron-all-versions-plus-summarit-f15

The new Voigtländer APO will likely be too chunky for my taste, if the pictures we recently saw hold true.

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Thats an interesting site. I know it well.

Other very critical reviews that are very often mentioned in this forum and that show the REAL WORLD of photography you find with REIDREVIEWS.COM. It is not a free publication but to me its worth every Euro. In there search for APO. You'll find a detailled test with more pros and cons that matter in daily photography. 

Have a look.

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21 hours ago, didier said:

I haven’t sold the ‘lux asph as I would probably use it for travel when we can travel again...

If I had a choice of traveling with a 50 'lux (which I own) or a 50 APO (which I don't own) I'd easily go with the 50 APO. I'd expect to make more use of the flatter field (landscapes, horizons) than the extra stop. What makes the 'lux better-suited for travel in your view?

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1 hour ago, astrostl said:

What makes the 'lux better-suited for travel in your view?

The extra-stop can be useful, particularly when I happen to use the Lens with my CL. When light travel is needed I like the CL + 18/2.8 and the ‘lux 50 as an efficient and super light combo.

I also do not hesitate to take it *everywhere* (desert, mountaineering, ...), whereas the APO is still completely as new and so I am a bit more careful :) 

Didier

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21 hours ago, M10 for me said:

I would like to propose the following: Post an image that was taken with the Lux and the same composition with same settings taken with the APO. This should be done as a blind test. Post the 2 pictures here.

But I think that we had this already in this forum. The differences were minimal to none.

I think differences would be quite important at close focus. If you shoot a portrait at less than 1 meter, you’ll notice difference, in sharpness, in clarify (purity of colors) and in bokeh (that depends on the background of course)

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22 hours ago, M10 for me said:

I would like to propose the following: Post an image that was taken with the Lux and the same composition with same settings taken with the APO. This should be done as a blind test. Post the 2 pictures here.

I would propose looking at professional reviews (DigLloyd, ReidReviews, etc.) who have taken many more than two pictures in controlled settings and post them uncompressed.

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Sometimes, the 50 lux is the tool that makes the photo possible and the APO impossible. Think handholding the lens wide open at 1/30s (lux at 1.4) vs. 1/15s (APO at f/2). Your actual "usable" shutter speed may of course vary.

Edited by Al Brown
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4 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Sometimes, the 50 lux is the tool that makes the photo possible and the APO impossible. Think handholding the lens wide open at 1/30s (lux at 1.4) vs. 1/15s (APO at f/2). Your actual "usable" shutter speed may of course vary.

I'm also thinking of strong ISO 6400+ performance on the M10+ 🤷‍♂️ I have a Summilux and enjoy 1.4 bokeh as much as the next person, but it's mostly about that for me.

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15 minutes ago, astrostl said:

I'm also thinking of strong ISO 6400+ performance on the M10+ 🤷‍♂️ I have a Summilux and enjoy 1.4 bokeh as much as the next person, but it's mostly about that for me.

I agree - if someone has to have only one, you choose which one is best for you depending on need

Many will have the Lux, but I find the apo great fro most applications

If someone can have two and loves bokeh, then I would definitely say APO and a noctiliux or VC 1.2 is probably a better combo than Lux and APO

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