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Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 50mm f/2 Aspherical VM lens to be announced soon


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I don't get hung up with silly marketing statements using such subjective terms without metrics to back them up. Obvious that the optical engineers that designed the lens didn't write the hype. They would quote lines per millimeter, percent distortion, focus shift between F2 and F5.6, chromatic aberration as focus shift between blue and red, actual measured focal length, percent transmission, etc. Meaningful if you want to use the lens in scientific measurements like measuring watts/steradian. For use on a camera to take photographs- "Best" has an entirely different meaning. So- we'll all wait for actual pictures taken with the lens. I suspect that some people that own the APO-Summicron will want to test this lens against it. I can test it against my 1957 Rigid Summicron. Tested against my 1934 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, it will be better for converting the image to watts/steradian, but I'll still like the Sonnar images more.

Edited by BrianS
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It is just a matter of seeing if the leica mount version matches the high performance of the sony version.

Its common practice now it seems for voigtlander to make a modern high performance lens for sony and afterwards produce the same lens for leica m mount so every chance the lens will be up there with the best leica mount 50mm lenses or even dare i say lens.

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I just spent the afternoon walking around with my 50/1.5 Asph Nokton-M V2 and 50/1.5 Asph Nokton LTM. The new lens shows 20 years of advances in optical design. The old one is a fine performer, no complaints. The new one- smaller, higher build quality, better performance.

 

Looking forward to the new APO Lanthar. This will make a fine pair of modern lenses for me. Nokton on the M9, APO Lanthar for the M Monochrom.

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I am as excited as the next guy to try this lens out and I will surely buy it given the bargain price when compared to Leica glass, not to mention the stellar reviews of the Sony version. But honestly I cannot imagine that it will please me more than my 50 Lux ASPH does.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

cut back on lenses ?  I’m not familiar with that concept 😁

I'm not personally subject to this horrible condition, but I've heard rumors that it afflicts some others.

And that's how I got over 100 lenses in Leica Mount.

Edited by BrianS
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On 12/5/2020 at 5:05 AM, Edax said:

Let's hope this lens has negligible focus shift so it can be used with the rangefinder without any compromise. Something that regrettably cannot be said about the recent Voigtlander Nokton Vintage Line 50mm F/1.5 Aspherical II VM.

I've just looked at several test images taken at F1.5 and F4: I do not see any focus shift that can be noticed at 100% crop on my M9. I'm used to looking for it in Sonnar lenses and others. I spent yesterday on a memorial walk with the Nokton V2 50/1.5 and Asph Nokton 50/1.5 LTM version. Looking at Bronze Relief plaques, I just do not see focus shift between F1.5 and F4 with the v2 Nokton at minimum focus- where it would be worst.

Can you post some images in a thread on Nokton 50/1.5 v2 focus shift?

Edited by BrianS
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7 hours ago, BrianS said:

I've just looked at several test images taken at F1.5 and F4: I do not see any focus shift that can be noticed at 100% crop on my M9. I'm used to looking for it in Sonnar lenses and others. I spent yesterday on a memorial walk with the Nokton V2 50/1.5 and Asph Nokton 50/1.5 LTM version. Looking at Bronze Relief plaques, I just do not see focus shift between F1.5 and F4 with the v2 Nokton at minimum focus- where it would be worst.

Can you post some images in a thread on Nokton 50/1.5 v2 focus shift?

 

Two lousy iPhone shots of the distance scale (with lens focussed on M10 through Visoflex Typ 020) for F/1.5 and F/4.0 should tell it all...

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Edited by Edax
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The new Voigtlander Nokton-M v2 50/1.5 on my M9, all focused with the rangefinder, using a 1.25x magnifier.

At F1.5, distance shot-

Wide-Open, Min Focus.

 

At F4, closest focus:

This is a relief type plaque- "not much depth" to the characters. If I had used a Sonnar, the figures would be out of focus. 

In short- I just do not see any observable focus shift. Between F1.5 and F4- I'm seeing the DOF reaching out in front and in back of the main point of focus.

I started using imgbb for hosting, if opening the images be sure to click the "Full Resolution" option.

These images tell me everything I need to know about using the lens between F1.5 and F4 in actual use. I do not need to account for focus shift when using the RF to focus the image. Any shift is more than covered by the DOF.

 

Edited by BrianS
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1 hour ago, BrianS said:

In short- I just do not see any observable focus shift. Between F1.5 and F4- I'm seeing the DOF reaching out in front and in back of the main point of focus.

I started using imgbb for hosting, if opening the images be sure to click the "Full Resolution" option.

These images tell me everything I need to know about using the lens between F1.5 and F4 in actual use. I do not need to account for focus shift when using the RF to focus the image. Any shift is more than covered by the DOF.

 

Without refocussing the shift might seem to be covered by DOF, but you will get a sharper image by refocussing. Otherwise I would not have obtained the results above...

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You stated that the lens could not be focused using the RF.

I can, no problem.

 

 

Using your criteria, no Leica lens can be used with a rangefinder. If that is the measure- stick with the electronic viewfinder for all of your pictures.

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2 minutes ago, BrianS said:

You stated that the lens could not be focused using the RF.

Using your criteria, no Leica lens can be used with a rangefinder. If that is the measure- stick with the electronic viewfinder for all of your pictures.

You asked me to demonstrate focus shift, so I did... I do not want to go further with this now.

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On 12/5/2020 at 5:05 AM, Edax said:

Let's hope this lens has negligible focus shift so it can be used with the rangefinder without any compromise. Something that regrettably cannot be said about the recent Voigtlander Nokton Vintage Line 50mm F/1.5 Aspherical II VM.

Okay, we'll take it back to the beginning.

The v2 Nokton has negligible focus shift compared with most Leica lenses and can be used quite successfully with the rangefinder for focus.

With the M9- I need to shim my F1.5 lenses within 0.01mm for optimal use wide-open and close-up. All of the classic Leica lenses shown are well outside of that range. It never stopped anyone from using them. 0.01mm is the limit of my ability to focus with the rangefinder of the M9 using the 1.25x magnifier. I've been using RF cameras since 1969.

 

Nokton 50/1.5 M v2 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

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Just for perspective- I have Thirty 50mm (5cm) F1.5 lenses in Leica mount. All optimized for wide-open, close-up work.

 

That includes some of them optimized for the M Monochrom for use with filters, to account for focus shift due to chromatic aberration.

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On 12/10/2020 at 4:57 PM, BrianS said:

I will report back. I believe the $999 is a pre-order price, once it is in regular stock I've read it will be going for $1150.

Looking at the optical block diagram- this lens looks like it has a more powerful retrofocus design to it than the APO-Summicron. The optical path is longer, accounts for larger size. I'll be using it on the M9 and M Monochrom.

 

My only Leica so far is the M10M....so, I'll be doing it on monochrom too.

 

I'm quite excited to see this lens in action.

 

Is there any word when in Jan 2021 it might be released?

 

cayenne

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1 hour ago, logan2z said:

Not to take this thread off on a tangent but, just out of curiosity, why so many lenses in the same focal length?   

Thirty 50mm F1.5, more than Fifty 50s.  Most were bought when very cheap, or needing repair. a number of them converted to Leica mount. I taught myself lens and some camera repair, ended up be more like reverse engineering some of them. I have a collection of Sonnar formula lenses from 1932 up through 2021- when the Bertele Sonnar comes out. The company is making one for me, with my name on it instead of a serial number. Some exceptionally rare- like the Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5, others like the Summarit and Xenon to find out what the issues were with their performance. Of late the Japanese have been dumping camera equipment at a fraction of what its sold for in the last 30 years, lenses like the Canon 50/2.2 that used to go for $600 down to under $100- I grab it. This lens was manufactured for 6 months. Many of them- the optical formula or glass used is unique, and want to see how they compare with other lenses.

 

As an example- the 1934 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar pictured with the Nokton- was like wax paper when received. Disassembled it, converted to Leica mount using left over parts from 3 Jupiter-3 focus mounts. A total of $90 and time invested, probably about 10 hours.

 

sonnar_1607_3 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Would you pay $90 for this lens?

Wide-Open on the M9.

Warm November Day by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

So now my F1.5 50mm collection goes from the first 5cm F1.5 Sonnar to the Nokton-M 50/1.5 V2.

Once the APO-Lanthar comes in, those will be my modern lenses. The APO-Lanthar for the M Monochrom and the Nokton for the M9. I would not trade the Sonnar for any modern lens. Finding a 1934 Sonnar in this condition, with glass this clean, with a natural bloom, would take years. Earlier Sonnars were constructed differently- could not get to the inner elements to clean them. Later lenses- the color rendering is "just different". 

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4 hours ago, BrianS said:

Thirty 50mm F1.5, more than Fifty 50s.  Most were bought when very cheap, or needing repair. a number of them converted to Leica mount. I taught myself lens and some camera repair, ended up be more like reverse engineering some of them. I have a collection of Sonnar formula lenses from 1932 up through 2021- when the Bertele Sonnar comes out. The company is making one for me, with my name on it instead of a serial number. Some exceptionally rare- like the Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5, others like the Summarit and Xenon to find out what the issues were with their performance. Of late the Japanese have been dumping camera equipment at a fraction of what its sold for in the last 30 years, lenses like the Canon 50/2.2 that used to go for $600 down to under $100- I grab it. This lens was manufactured for 6 months. Many of them- the optical formula or glass used is unique, and want to see how they compare with other lenses.

 

As an example- the 1934 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar pictured with the Nokton- was like wax paper when received. Disassembled it, converted to Leica mount using left over parts from 3 Jupiter-3 focus mounts. A total of $90 and time invested, probably about 10 hours.

 

sonnar_1607_3 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Would you pay $90 for this lens?

Wide-Open on the M9.

Warm November Day by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

So now my F1.5 50mm collection goes from the first 5cm F1.5 Sonnar to the Nokton-M 50/1.5 V2.

Once the APO-Lanthar comes in, those will be my modern lenses. The APO-Lanthar for the M Monochrom and the Nokton for the M9. I would not trade the Sonnar for any modern lens. Finding a 1934 Sonnar in this condition, with glass this clean, with a natural bloom, would take years. Earlier Sonnars were constructed differently- could not get to the inner elements to clean them. Later lenses- the color rendering is "just different". 

Very impressive.  I hear you on Japanese gear.  I've been buying some Nikon cameras/lenses at ridiculously low prices, given the quality.  It seems almost free compared to Leica gear 😉

Edited by logan2z
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18 hours ago, BrianS said:

Thirty 50mm F1.5, more than Fifty 50s.  Most were bought when very cheap, or needing repair. a number of them converted to Leica mount. I taught myself lens and some camera repair, ended up be more like reverse engineering some of them. I have a collection of Sonnar formula lenses from 1932 up through 2021- when the Bertele Sonnar comes out. The company is making one for me, with my name on it instead of a serial number. Some exceptionally rare- like the Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5, others like the Summarit and Xenon to find out what the issues were with their performance. Of late the Japanese have been dumping camera equipment at a fraction of what its sold for in the last 30 years, lenses like the Canon 50/2.2 that used to go for $600 down to under $100- I grab it. This lens was manufactured for 6 months. Many of them- the optical formula or glass used is unique, and want to see how they compare with other lenses.

 

As an example- the 1934 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar pictured with the Nokton- was like wax paper when received. Disassembled it, converted to Leica mount using left over parts from 3 Jupiter-3 focus mounts. A total of $90 and time invested, probably about 10 hours.

 

sonnar_1607_3 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Would you pay $90 for this lens?

Wide-Open on the M9.

Warm November Day by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

So now my F1.5 50mm collection goes from the first 5cm F1.5 Sonnar to the Nokton-M 50/1.5 V2.

Once the APO-Lanthar comes in, those will be my modern lenses. The APO-Lanthar for the M Monochrom and the Nokton for the M9. I would not trade the Sonnar for any modern lens. Finding a 1934 Sonnar in this condition, with glass this clean, with a natural bloom, would take years. Earlier Sonnars were constructed differently- could not get to the inner elements to clean them. Later lenses- the color rendering is "just different". 

Wow...

You should start a YouTube channel showing how you do all this work, especially converting these lenses to Leica mounts.

I for one would watch a LOT of this!!

(hint hint)

;)

 

cayenne

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