thoughts on the Q2M

[nwphil]

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33 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

You also missed the sarcasm.  I was arguing in YOUR  favor, suggesting that the other commenter could better spend time doing his own search. (Then he wouldn’t be boasting as if he somehow invented the conversation, or the ‘right’ to engage it.)

Jeff

at least I was nice about it or tried my best...I think

hmmm...., starting to wonder if was you that miss inserting the sarcasm Jeff - one more comment like this, and your sarcasm-master title is going to be taken away (not valid if it's copy&paste from a search.)😜

[nico4444]

To be fair, it is incredibly hard to spot the sarcasm there, if there was any at all to begin with, but it seems both Herr Barnack and Jeff are criticizing the closed minded and elitist approach of Leica28.

Going back to the topic - I own the Q and have been using the monochrome EVF to compose  most of my pictures. I have been impressed by the quality of conversion to B&W of the pictures taken with the Summilux, as long as I followed the zone system. I find B&W conversion to be the smarter option for post-processing and the only feature (possibly the dealbreaker for me, personally) from the Q2M that I find worthwhile would be its low-light performance, because I assume I can’t bring out as much tonal variance from the shadows with the Q compared to the Q2M.

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[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, nico4444 said:

To be fair, it is incredibly hard to spot the sarcasm there, if there was any at all to begin with, but it seems both Herr Barnack and Jeff are criticizing the closed minded and elitist approach of Leica28.

.

This. I didn’t want to come across similarly.

Jeff

[nwphil]

if one is already a Q owner, I can understand that it will be harder to justify the Q2M. Cost aside, the M10M can a better choice if one has already M mount glass. The earlier monochrom versions will then have similar iso and megapixels range. The Olympus Pen F does actually produce raw B&W files....but, still is a color sensor, and far from the Q1 league. The post processing will happen with either shooting with a monochrom sensor or color converting to b&w. The results will be different, higher quality on  the Q2M, but the value of that difference and experience will be an individual thing

[nicci78]

No target mode in Q2 Monochrom = no go for me. 
As I found that target mode is the only reliable AF mode in Q2. But sadly it relies on colour variations only. 
You can try by yourself. If set to monochrom Q2 will revert back to colour as long as you are half pressing the shutter button. Very weird. I first thought that is was a bug. But CL is also  doing the same thing. 
It is just that the camera needed the colour to follow any target properly. 

[Leica Guy]

On 12/3/2020 at 6:05 PM, nico4444 said:

To be fair, it is incredibly hard to spot the sarcasm there, if there was any at all to begin with, but it seems both Herr Barnack and Jeff are criticizing the closed minded and elitist approach of Leica28.

Going back to the topic - I own the Q and have been using the monochrome EVF to compose  most of my pictures. I have been impressed by the quality of conversion to B&W of the pictures taken with the Summilux, as long as I followed the zone system. I find B&W conversion to be the smarter option for post-processing and the only feature (possibly the dealbreaker for me, personally) from the Q2M that I find worthwhile would be its low-light performance, because I assume I can’t bring out as much tonal variance from the shadows with the Q compared to the Q2M.

I believe you are exactly right. The high ISO performance of the Q2M is the big advantage. It is pretty stunning and almost, but not quite, as good as the M10M. 

[cboy]

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When the color filter array is removed from the sensor it allows for greater tonality, rendering and microcontrast. One could see the difference when comparing the images taken between the Q2M and the B/W converted images on the Q2. But whether itll be perceptible in print is another issue. It allows to see more light thus the better low light performance. Its the closest to b/w film as one could get digitally. The fact one could recover more through PP with three channels can be argued against though...

Its use case can be argued however if the user is a black and white purist and wishes to get the most tonality and depth from the sensor. Having a higher MP camera would support the more detail gained from a monochrome sensor. Its horses for courses whether that level of detail can be justified at the expense of color.

Imho if one is just converting all their images for color to b/w then removing that hassle in their workflow could justify going monochrome.

 

 

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

No target mode in Q2 Monochrom = no go for me. 
As I found that target mode is the only reliable AF mode in Q2. But sadly it relies on colour variations only. 
You can try by yourself. If set to monochrom Q2 will revert back to colour as long as you are half pressing the shutter button. Very weird. I first thought that is was a bug. But CL is also  doing the same thing. 
It is just that the camera needed the colour to follow any target properly. 

I assume you meant "Tracking" instead of "Target" AF metering method. 
I am surprised that you find that Tracking mode is more reliable than, e.g., Field mode, since Tracking only moves the focus point automatically and should not affect the reliability of focus. Note that Q2M still has a face detection mode.

[nicci78]

I mean tracking  AF. 
 

It is really more reliable than any other Q2 AF mode 

Face detect is useless with Q2. 

[nicci78]

With tracking AF mode. You can use the Q2 just as you are using any M camera. 
Just set the camera to go back to center after each shot  

Aim with the center AF spot. Half press the shutter. Recompose. Then fully shoot. 
 

The tracking will keep your subject in focus. No matter what : movement from the subject, from the photographer and solve any issue of focus shift. 
It is awesome.

Of course with touch screen you can directly choose any point of focus. It will be kept in focus until you fully press the shutter  

It is also the only viable way to shoot in AF for left eye dominant photographer. Otherwise your nose will trigger the box to make the AF point bigger or smaller. 
 

Try this mode for a few days. You will not go back to any other AF mode  

By the way. Just choose permanently AF-C instead of AF-S in any AF mode. It works better this way  

 

 

[nwphil]

On 12/6/2020 at 12:22 AM, nicci78 said:

With tracking AF mode. You can use the Q2 just as you are using any M camera. 
Just set the camera to go back to center after each shot  

Aim with the center AF spot. Half press the shutter. Recompose. Then fully shoot. 
 

The tracking will keep your subject in focus. No matter what : movement from the subject, from the photographer and solve any issue of focus shift. 
It is awesome.

Of course with touch screen you can directly choose any point of focus. It will be kept in focus until you fully press the shutter  

It is also the only viable way to shoot in AF for left eye dominant photographer. Otherwise your nose will trigger the box to make the AF point bigger or smaller. 
 

Try this mode for a few days. You will not go back to any other AF mode  

By the way. Just choose permanently AF-C instead of AF-S in any AF mode. It works better this way  

 

 

Hi Nicci78 

would you to tell me please how that setting is set?(highlighted in yellow)

Thanks

[ianforber]

Just realised no one replied to your question. On page 1 of the menu, choose ‘Focusing’, then at the bottom of the Focusing sub-menu is ‘AF Tracking Start Position’. You can choose there whether to set to Centre or Last Position.

[nwphil]

36 minutes ago, ianforber said:

Just realised no one replied to your question. On page 1 of the menu, choose ‘Focusing’, then at the bottom of the Focusing sub-menu is ‘AF Tracking Start Position’. You can choose there whether to set to Centre or Last Position.

hmmm, I will have to look in the menu deeper - it's not showing in the Q2M lcd. is this just for a Q2 and not a Q2M?

Thanks anyway - I will try to find more about it

[brickftl]

okay I'll probably enrage the Q2M owners with my opinion, but looking over all the images posted on the Q2M photo thread, I'm struck with the feeling there's not a single posted image that couldn't have been duplicated by a side by side shot from a Q2 at the same settings. Not a single one. I'm sure people will respond by telling me that the "tonality" is somehow different and superior, but again I'm just not seeing it. Seems much ado about nothing akin to the emperor wearing no clothes. 

Yes I understand that in very low light the Q2M has an advantage over the Q2, although even in those situations I'd like to see the Q2 images cleaned up by a competent post processor using a good noise reduction program such as Topaz Noise AI.  

[nwphil]

That's fine with me - not enraged at all, and I do understand your point. As far as the images there is more to it, and to be honest, it takes some experimentation to get to know a new tool and take full advantage of it. I am aware of not been there ...yet

The duplication thing, all the post processing either a lot or a little, was not a debate I had before even taking the Q2M - I debated last between getting the Q or the M10 (monochrome versions), but I find myself equipped well enough for color images, and having actually a reasonable camera that outputs color monochrome shots - the Pen F, and happy with the M240 well enough, for not feeling the need to upgrade

For me, it's the whole concept,  the different approach I force myself to take. I can have cameras with all options, but that's the point - I don't want options, but the option of choosing a camera that only shoots in B&W the whole time, if that makes any sense.

If not that's fine too, because it does make sense to me, and that's all that matters in he end, right?

The Q2 not even was in consideration for a bit , despite being a great camera, no doubts. I did look at the Ricoh and Fuji and with them too, there was no appeal, as I had similar already.( not equal, or equivalent)

So, all good - nothing wrong with PP to b&w, and honestly it's great that works for you.

(btw, some people can't see the '3D' in images or get confused in distinguishing it either)

"vive la difference" - that makes us all the same after all 🙂

Edited December 9, 2020 by nwphil

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, nwphil said:

hmmm, I will have to look in the menu deeper - it's not showing in the Q2M lcd. is this just for a Q2 and not a Q2M?

Thanks anyway - I will try to find more about it

Q2M does not have AF tracking mode. The instructions for resetting the focus point location when in AF tracking, is for Q2 only.

[ianforber]

23 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Q2M does not have AF tracking mode. The instructions for resetting the focus point location when in AF tracking, is for Q2 only.

Ah, that explains it. Sorry if I gave the wrong steer. I assume that means the Q2 is using colour channels for the tracking algorithm. 

[nwphil]

10 minutes ago, ianforber said:

Ah, that explains it. Sorry if I gave the wrong steer. I assume that means the Q2 is using colour channels for the tracking algorithm. 

no problems - do appreciate the effort and time. Made me look and learn a new thing - that q2m doesn't have color channels...no, wait - wrong thing 😁

with lcd touch active the af goes to center with double touch - so not quite the same

[nico4444]

2 hours ago, brickftl said:

okay I'll probably enrage the Q2M owners with my opinion, but looking over all the images posted on the Q2M photo thread, I'm struck with the feeling there's not a single posted image that couldn't have been duplicated by a side by side shot from a Q2 at the same settings. Not a single one. I'm sure people will respond by telling me that the "tonality" is somehow different and superior, but again I'm just not seeing it. Seems much ado about nothing akin to the emperor wearing no clothes. 

Yes I understand that in very low light the Q2M has an advantage over the Q2, although even in those situations I'd like to see the Q2 images cleaned up by a competent post processor using a good noise reduction program such as Topaz Noise AI.  

Honestly, I have to agree with you on this one: the pictures posted in the Q2M image thread are terrible for displaying the capabilities of the sensor... As a potential buyer, I need to see the result of people shooting B&W with purpose rather than people shooting B&W for the sake of it.

The quality of the shots of macro/leaves/trees/nature/etc. sure is stunning, but they can be easily achieved with a normal camera with a sharp lens, if that is the characteristic you desire in your photos. The user 'piran' posted several pictures of a coastline and they were mostly either underexposed or overexposed. It would have been useful to see if from the DNG file, detail could have been extracted from the shadows which appeared to be completely black in the photos.

I would be much more interested in seeing how the camera performs in low light with heavy shadows, because that's when the sensor of monochrom cameras shines in my eyes.

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[nwphil]

5 minutes ago, nico4444 said:

Honestly, I have to agree with you on this one: the pictures posted in the Q2M image thread are terrible for displaying the capabilities of the sensor... As a potential buyer, I need to see the result of people shooting B&W with purpose rather than people shooting B&W for the sake of it.

The quality of the shots of macro/leaves/trees/nature/etc. sure is stunning, but they can be easily achieved with a normal camera with a sharp lens, if that is the characteristic you desire in your photos. The user 'piran' posted several pictures of a coastline and they were mostly either underexposed or overexposed. It would have been useful to see if from the DNG file, detail could have been extracted from the shadows which appeared to be completely black in the photos.

I would be much more interested in seeing how the camera performs in low light with heavy shadows, because that's when the sensor of monochrom cameras shines in my eyes.

It probably could be said the same in the M10M picture thread

I am still trying to grasp the seeing in b&w mode, but would appreciate some critique:

and a few others down in the thread.

Thanks