Architectural / Landscape photography camera M-10R or SL2

[eev776]

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I'm trying to choose which camera to get for architectural / landscape photography M10R or SL2. I currently own Leica CL, very happy with it, but I need full-frame higher megapixel camera.

I do own mostly M lenses and few R lenses and two TL lenses. Never used rangefinder camera before, but I heard it's great for focusing in dark conditions, which is I do a lot.

Or SL2 is still better, by just putting M lens on it with adapter, is EVF works good in low light, or gets noisy with M lenses.

Share your suggestions, experiences Pros and Cons.

Edited November 30, 2020 by eev776

[steveBK]

I've used M & SL systems extensively.

Realistically SL2 is your answer for this use case.

More lens adaptability.

IBIS for handheld.

EVF/LCD centric design with leveling guides in-view.

Multi-shot hi-res mode for static subjects.

Cheaper.

Can change battery/SD card while on tripod unlike M.

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[ardbeg]

Also re: SL2, you can adapt tilt / shift lenses (e.g. Canon via Sigma adapter) if your type of architectural / landscape work can benefit from lens movements.

[eev776]

6 hours ago, steveBK said:

I've used M & SL systems extensively.

Realistically SL2 is your answer for this use case.

More lens adaptability.

IBIS for handheld.

EVF/LCD centric design with leveling guides in-view.

Multi-shot hi-res mode for static subjects.

Cheaper.

Can change battery/SD card while on tripod unlike M.

Thank you! More lens adaptivity and leveling guides in-view is very important for me.

[eev776]

5 hours ago, ardbeg said:

Also re: SL2, you can adapt tilt / shift lenses (e.g. Canon via Sigma adapter) if your type of architectural / landscape work can benefit from lens movements.

I haven't thought about that, but it's a great point. However I still prefer to just my images perspective in post, rather than carrying an extra lens.

Maybe I do miss something about tilt/shift lenses?

Edited November 30, 2020 by eev776

[eev776]

I was trying M-10 R and Leica SL2 at Leica store, one strange problem I noticed with SL2 EVF is when I zoom in to focus while using M lenses EVF preview looks fuzzy with artifacts.

Then I put M lens on CL body, zoom in preview is clear no noise, I had whole topic regarding this issue posted in August. Seem like there is no way around it, CL preview appears clean because it zooms less during focusing, SL2 has higher megapixels so it zooms more, that is just my guess though.

Edited November 30, 2020 by eev776

[Jeff S]

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I prefer M lenses on my M bodies, and SL lenses on my SL2. I use M cameras with RF only, 28/35/50 focal lengths, for easy/discreet carry. The SL2 is my weather sealed system, with zooms and longer primes, and offers all the benefits of an EVF based system with AF. Different tools, different experiences, different uses, for me. 

Jeff

[ardbeg]

5 hours ago, eev776 said:

Maybe I do miss something about tilt/shift lenses?

You can certainly do perspective adjustment in post (and save some money on dedicated T/S lenses) BUT you are losing resolution / pixels when you do. There is no substitute to the ease of alignment of stitching 3 or more shifted shots into a panorama. Add multi-shot to that and (if you are resolution hungry) you can push 300+ Mpixels on a perfectly aligned pano. Also, having shot a bit of LF 4X5 a long time ago, “in camera” tilts are just awesome. Lastly, the tilts allow you to get increased DoF at wider apertures. Given smaller pixel pitch / higher pixel density in these 40+ megapixel cameras, small aperture induced diffraction is going to occur closer to F11 compared to film days where you could occasionally push to F16. Thus, I frequently don’t go smaller than F9.5 but can achieve extreme DoF via tilts.

Edited December 1, 2020 by ardbeg

[Jeff S]

Also, distortion from converging verticals (‘keystoning’), when corrected digitally in PP, can result in a cropped image around the edges, compared to lens shifting, which can preserve more real estate (literally if buildings are the subject).

Jeff

[sillbeers15]

I own and use both M & SL system side by side with compact M lenses such as the 35 Lux & 90 corn for M camera and use mainly the 3 SL zooms & SL75 with M50notilux & M21lux for my SL2. 
with IBIS and autofocus turned off and SL2 mounted on tripod for most of my landscape application. SL16-35 is indeed a jewel for my landscape application.

However when I took delivery of my M10R, my landscape application with M camera got reignited now that the M has a 40.9MP sensor with better highlight recovery and an extended 16min long exposure time, I purchased the WATE to expend my M kit to 16mm to 90mm. The compact body and lenses make landscape shooting less cumbersome and more fun for me.

[caissa]

You can use both, but I prefer SL2. Reasons ? The SL 16-35, Canon T/S lenses, generally better control and higher resolution and finally maybe multishot mode.

[Simone_DF]

FYI:

https://www.venuslens.net/product/15mm-f-4-5-zero-d-shift/

Too bad it's not coming in L mount

[LocalHero1953]

For anything outdoors weather sealing (with L lenses) is a major plus.

I would also add, in favour of the SL2 (or rather anything except the M), WYSIWYG framing. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

10 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

FYI:

https://www.venuslens.net/product/15mm-f-4-5-zero-d-shift/

Too bad it's not coming in L mount

Any manual focus lens in EF mount is fine on the SL2 with an MC21.

As for M or SL for casual landscape and architecture I'd gravitate toward the SL2 as all the lenses you currently have (including the CL ones) can be used on it. It'll be immediately familiar as the menus and layout are similar to your CL. Any SL lenses you get will also work on your CL.

The downside is the system size and weight. The SL is not a small system. If that matters then the M10R will work well with your M and R lenses (with optional EVF). The Visoflex is not close to the SL2 EVF but it works, at a pinch. Your CL lenses won't work on the M10R and you can't adapt as many lenses like the Canon TS lenses.

For casual shooting I tend to carry my M10R and M10M. When I get serious (ie: I'm considering a tripod) I shoot with the SL2. 

Gordon

[Simone_DF]

11 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Any manual focus lens in EF mount is fine on the SL2 with an MC21.

Yes of course. But Laowa is offering other lenses in native L mount, shame it's not offering this one.

[Jon Warwick]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes of course. But Laowa is offering other lenses in native L mount, shame it's not offering this one.

It’s also a shame that there are no Leica made T/S lenses in L Mount......an ultra high performance 28 or 35mm T/S on my SL2 in high resolution mode would be a dream lens for me ....

Edited December 2, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[caissa]

The current situation will not allow this. Let’s see which camera makers will survive the next few years. And use adapted lenses (the advantage of mirrorless). All exotic lenses can only be produced when the business situation allows it, and where is this currently the case ?

In the meantime the Leica R 28mm shift lens is also not bad at f5.6 or f8 .

Edited December 2, 2020 by caissa

[Fedro]

depends on what kind of pictures you like to take .. anything with a tripod or filter system I think the SL2 has the upper hand

with landscape especially, I love to take pictures by the sea, weather sealing is a must

Edited December 2, 2020 by Fedro