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Your opinion about 35mm...


nasos fos

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Hello,

I m new here and I need some help. :)

In the next days I will be an M10 owner and I can't decide which lens to buy. I put all my savings on the M10 and now I m broke. :)

So I decided to go for a Voigtländer 35mm 1.4 II Nokton classic MC and in 3 -4 months I will buy the 50mm 1.4 Summilux.

What do you thing about this lens? Any other suggestions?

I would love to have some creamy bokeh since I shoot at 1.4 but I know with that money can't have it all... :) 

 

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the Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.4 MC II is an incredible lens as it fixed most of the focus shift issues from the Version 1. I’ve had one mounted on my M10 for a long time and I highly recommend it.

The Voigtlander Ultron 35mm f/2 ASPH is also an incredible lens (sharper, better contrast, etc) and I put it on par with the Leica Summicron-M 35mm ASPH I (first ASPH).

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I'd generalize that the starting point is whether you want a "vintage" or "modern" look. I vastly prefer "modern" ("sharp", greater control of aberrations, etc.) looks for digital systems and would go with the Voigtlander VM 35/1.7 if optimizing for "sharpness" and the Voigtlander VM 35/1.2 III if optimizing for bokeh. I own both, and think they're both great. The 1.7 has been discontinued, but you can still get new discounted copies from places like CameraQuest (Voigtlander's primary USA distributor). I'd also get a TTArtisan 50/1.4 to save a boatload over the Summilux, and I also currently own both. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/ has tons of reviews, and I'd highly recommend poring over them.

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Welcome to the Forum.Congratulations on the M10. You will need practice to shoot at f1.4 if you want sharp focus. You have a fun decision to make, but I would give serious consideration to the new Voightlander Nokton 50mm f1.5.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1603145-REG/voigtlander_ba360d_nokton_50mm_f_1_5_aspherical.html

Edited by pedaes
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I would suggest on the voigtlander 35 f1.2 veriii or ttartisan 35mm f1.4 for more creamer bokeh and low light capability. The nokton classic has old school vibe to it imho good for general photography and travel, but dont expect bitingly sharp to exploit the cameras full potential. Congrats on your m10 btw.  

Id suggest also the 35mm f1.7 ultron. Excellent rendering.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/ultron/pool/page7

 

Edited by cboy
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You’ll be happy with the Nokton II 1.4 - it’s one of my favorite and most pleasing lenses. I used the ver I happily for a few years until the ver II cured the focus shift problem. I also got the TTArtisan 1.4 to try out, but still prefer the Nokton. The TT and most others are just too big for me, and I don’t find the images of the TT any better by my criteria.

I use the Nokton most on my M9 where the 1.4 speed is handy, and use a Summarit 35 f2.5 as my normal lens on my M10. While I used a 50mm most on film, on digital M I find 35 more universal.

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I almost never shoot a 35mm lens at f/1.4. Can get all the bokeh I want at f/2.8 or f/2. About the only situation for f/1.4 is when I absolutely need the light and can live with the extreme slice that is in focus.

The rendering of a particular f/1.4 lens at tighter apertures can be delightful, of course. Here a pre-aspherical Summilux 35 at f/11:

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First and foremost, I have the 35mm Nokton f/1.4 II and love it.

The reasons are its combination of compact size, close-focus ability (0.7m), availability and price. It is very sharp in the center at any aperture. The only Leica lens that I might choose in preference would be the even-more-compact, close-focusing 35mm Summicron-M version 4 (non-ASPH - 1980-1997). If I could find one complete with 6-bit coding. But the last time I saw one of those (used, fair condition) at the price of the Nokton was - 2001.

However, in case you are unfamiliar with the essential behavior of such compact, non-ASPH, double-gauss 35mm lenses for rangefinder cameras, some cautionary examples. I don't consider these deal-breakers at all, since the pre-ASPH Leica equivalents do the same things to one extent of another, so I expect them. It is the price of the small size and large aperture. But you should know what to expect.

One has to remember that the Nokton is an intentional throwback to the original Leitz/Leica 35mm designs 1960-1980, which were intended primarily for low-light documentary photojournalism by newspaper and magazine photographers. Get pictures of important events, in extremely low light, with the subject approximately centered, with the smallest lens possible, and forget about the corners or the "bokeh." If one needed maximum image quality, one stopped down.

1). Bokeh. On the whole, the bokeh of such lenses is not the smoothest and creamiest, at least at larger apertures. It tends to be of the "bright-ring" type, which can produce other "double-images" (see doorframe bottom left below) or even "unblur" things as the rings overlap (note the yellow signage letters trying to "reappear "in the top center of this crop) - If the subject contrast is high (bright things against dark backgrounds). The Nokton even occasionally produces triple bright-rings (see dim bokeh-circle top left-center).

All images: 35CV Nokton (II) MC at f/1.4 on M10. It should be noted that the SC (single-coated) version, with lower contrast, may behave slightly differently.

.....................................................................tripled-rings vvvv

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2) "Exotic" Astigmatic-coma aberrations at the widest apertures. This first example is "worst-case," with bright in-focus pin-point light sources ('tis the season) at night. The optical aberration coma stretches the points outwards from the center, giving them a triangular "comet tail" (thus the name). The astigmatism smears the point-source (and comet tail) sideways, producing the "butterfly wings."

This effect increases out from the picture center to the corners, and reduces substantially with stopping down to smaller apertures. But unless one wants the effect, these lenses (including the Nokton) may not be great lenses for night cityscapes wide-open, for example. The Nokton (II) does this somewhat more strongly than the Leitz/Leica fast non-ASPH 35mm lenses. And again, the Nokton occasionally throws out triple comet tails/wings at a certain image radius - not sure why; I suspect internal reflections.

(BTW, the only Leica-M 35mm lens I know of that almost completely eliminates coma and astigmatism of this type is the Summilux-M ASPH. It was a specific goal of the 1993 design brief and one of its signature features. But it required a much larger lens, with "corrective elements" on the front and back, plus aspherics.)

Top left corner of image at 100%.

 

However, in more normal, lower-contrast situations, the effect is far less obvious. One simply gets an "around the center" blurriness or streakiness or "swirlyness" at the extreme corners, as multiple points of approximately equal brightness smear into one another. Again, this decreases rapidly with stopping down, and is mostly gone by f/5.6-f/8.

Edited by adan
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9 hours ago, nasos fos said:

So I decided to go for a Voigtländer 35mm 1.4 II Nokton classic MC [...]

What do you thing about this lens? Any other suggestions?

I would love to have some creamy bokeh since I shoot at 1.4 but I know with that money can't have it all... :) 

Honestly i did not like its bokeh at all but it's a subjective matter as you know. Now the Nokton 35/1.4 v2 "SC" is difficult to beat if by creamy you mean gaussian blur more or less. Also the lens has much less flare than i expected from a single coated lens and it remains significantly sharper than my Summilux 35/1.4 v2. My experience with the Nokton is limited to the digital CL though but it has almost killed my dear old Summilux on that body. Beware of distortion though. Easy to asjust in PP but if you shoot jpegs i would try different lens profiles to see if the lens fits your needs. BTW the Summilux 35/1.4 pre-FLE profile works fine on my CL (digital CL, VM 35/1.4 v2 SC, 0.7m, f/1.4).

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11 hours ago, nasos fos said:

Hello,

I m new here and I need some help. :)

In the next days I will be an M10 owner and I can't decide which lens to buy. I put all my savings on the M10 and now I m broke. :)

So I decided to go for a Voigtländer 35mm 1.4 II Nokton classic MC and in 3 -4 months I will buy the 50mm 1.4 Summilux.

What do you thing about this lens? Any other suggestions?

I would love to have some creamy bokeh since I shoot at 1.4 but I know with that money can't have it all... :) 

 

Congratulations for your new camera.

IMO, if you're looking for a budgetary limited lens comes with creamy bokeh, then the "Voigtlander NOKTON 35mm F1 2 Aspherical III VM" could be a good option for you.

Further more, if you're concerning the print quality and knowing that the light path calibration is the key to the core of best result then this lens won't let you down.

Alternate options would be ZEISS C Biogon T* 2.8/35 ZM or LTM lenses(some of them are great enough on the modern M system).

Every and each Leica lens has their own standpoint for different design logic and philosophy, once you attached Leica lens, hands-on and shooting over 250 photos, you'll recognize its unique value proposition.

Edited by Erato
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Based on my experience with SLR lenses, I knew that I preferred the 35mm focal length to the 50mm focal length for general shooting. Rarely did I carry both a 35 and a 50mm lens.

 

When I bought my Leica M6, I knew that my first lens would be a 35mm f/1.4 Zeiss; my second would be a 90mm f/2, and my third was a 21mm f/1.4. This three lens kit has been perfect for me on my M6 and my M10.

 

Three-Lens Rangefinder Kit by Narsuitus, on Flickr

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My best lens of 4 in my opinion is the zeiss 35mm f1.4 distagon, i love how it renders the endless pictures  i take of my grand children taken mostly at wider apertures but equally its very sharp for my night harbour type pictures at all apertures.

Worth looking into along with all the other fine lenses mentioned.

 

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I have it. As substitute to Summarit-M 35 2.5.

Nokton build is not Leica quiality, but lens has Classic RF lens proportions, size and handling. 

On bokeh it is between OK, funky or just nervous. But it still makes sense on my M-E 220.

F1.4 lenses on M10... If you really need bokeh, you'll be better served even with Chineese 35 1.4 or Cosina made recent 35 1.2 Nokton III.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The sharpest 35mm F1.4 lens at any price is the Zeiss ZM. It is aspherical and has floating lens elements.  But it's big and you might not want to carry it around. That's why I more often use the F2 Summicron 35mm ASPH. If you want speed and something smaller and less expensive then it would be the new Voigtlander F1.4. 

Edited by Twasi
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On 11/30/2020 at 3:56 AM, nasos fos said:

Voigtländer 35mm 1.4 II Nokton classic MC and in 3 -4 months I will buy the 50mm 1.4 Summilux.:):)

What do you thing about this lens? Any other suggestions?

I would love to have some creamy bokeh since I shoot at 1.4 but I know with that money can't have it all... :) 

 

Im not sure on what your use case will be whether it be for portrait , travel, general use, street as various lens caters best for different purposes.

The Nokton 35mm f1.4 seems to get varying opinions depending on their tolerance to aberrations compared to the technical perfection of its leica counterpart. I myself dont mind the artistic licence this lens offers particularly in portrait, which this i think the lens excels at. 

Personally i think 35mm is suited for faster shooting for environmental shots, however some of the MIC 1.4 lenses do great at isolating subjects within a environment, but none more so than leica 35 f1.4 FLE

The lux has two characteristics it seems -wide open that gives the most beautiful oof dreamy rendering that cant be seen elsewhere in leicas 50mm lineup except the noctilux; closed down high contrast and excellent center performance thoughout, dropping only in the outer zones, but were IQ becomes outstanding is when stopped down to f5.6-8. Excellent general purpose lens

Congrats on your purchases.

Hope you share your experiences

All the best

 

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  • 4 months later...
On 11/29/2020 at 10:56 AM, nasos fos said:

Hello,

I m new here and I need some help. :)

In the next days I will be an M10 owner and I can't decide which lens to buy. I put all my savings on the M10 and now I m broke. :)

So I decided to go for a Voigtländer 35mm 1.4 II Nokton classic MC and in 3 -4 months I will buy the 50mm 1.4 Summilux.

What do you thing about this lens? Any other suggestions?

I would love to have some creamy bokeh since I shoot at 1.4 but I know with that money can't have it all... :) 

 

How does it go so far with your M10 - 35/1.4 Nokton combo?

🤔

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