CLA M7 ....or sell for new M-A?

[Jon Warwick]

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Clearly this will be my own ultimate decision, but your opinions will help me decide, so thoughts gratefully received ....:

I have an M7, which I bought brand new but it was among the earliest ones, so with various known problems (i) non-MP viewfinder, such that my M7 flares; (ii) original DX reader that should be replaced with an optical reader. And now (iii) the framelines are natively stuck at 35mm/135mm (regardless of the lens), and would need a CLA.

I am guessing the cost to fix the above is probably around £1k via Leica in Germany .... which, if that were the case, means I’m almost break even selling my M7 to avoid the CLA and rangefinder flare costs, and getting a new M-A?

I fully understand the M-A is all mechanical with no batteries, and that is fine given I tend to use external Sekonic meters anyhow.

Beyond that - is there any obvious benefits of the M-A vs M7? I’m wondering (in particular) if accuracy / contrast / stability of the rangefinder focusing was improved, for example? ....eg, I found my M240 much easier to accurately focus than the M7, and I’m wondering if that benefit extends to the M-A?

Or will a refurb’d M7 make it as good as the newest and latest analogue cameras anyhow in that regard?

Any other thoughts, in either direction, would be gratefully heard to help me consider repairing an early M7 vs replacing with a new M-A .......

Edited November 27, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[sblitz]

its news and non electronic, so you are way ahead on the longevity curve. The viewfinder is much brighter and focus mechanism is more accurate. IF you are fine without the lights and electronics, get the MA .... 

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[jaapv]

You could ask a reputed repair shop for an estimate, which should be less than Leica's.

[Guest JMF]

1 hour ago, Jon Warwick said:

Clearly this will be my own ultimate decision, but your opinions will help me decide, so thoughts gratefully received ....:

I have an M7, which I bought brand new but it was among the earliest ones, so with various known problems (i) non-MP viewfinder, such that my M7 flares; (ii) original DX reader that should be replaced with an optical reader. And now (iii) the framelines are natively stuck at 35mm/135mm (regardless of the lens), and would need a CLA.

I am guessing the cost to fix the above is probably around £1k via Leica in Germany .... which, if that were the case, means I’m almost break even selling my M7 to avoid the CLA and rangefinder flare costs, and getting a new M-A?

I fully understand the M-A is all mechanical with no batteries, and that is fine given I tend to use external Sekonic meters anyhow.

Beyond that - is there any obvious benefits of the M-A vs M7? I’m wondering (in particular) if accuracy / contrast / stability of the rangefinder focusing was improved, for example? ....eg, I found my M240 much easier to accurately focus than the M7, and I’m wondering if that benefit extends to the M-A?

Or will a refurb’d M7 make it as good as the newest and latest analogue cameras anyhow in that regard?

Any other thoughts, in either direction, would be gratefully heard to help me consider repairing an early M7 vs replacing with a new M-A .......

A good while ago, Leica was replacing the faulty DX reader for free:

Ask your Leica dealer !

Best, JM.

[plaidshirts]

Since you’re entertaining the idea of getting an M-A you could get any of the earlier M bodies (M2, M3, etc) and have it CLA’ed for less than the selling price of your M7.

[wattsy]

Definitely ask Leica about the DX. I think the upgrade is still free and you will likely get the CLA also done for free as part of the service. Even if not free, it is likely to substantially reduce the cost of a CLA at Wetzlar. That said, even paying the full price of a CLA strikes me as more cost effective than buying an M-A.

[ShivaYash]

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I have the M-A - it is lovely. Of course many will say get an older body, but the M-A feels modern though it is not. The flaring issue is an odd one. Some claim never to have suffered from it, while others say it renders their camera useless. I found flaring an issue on my M6s so definitely benefit from the upgraded viewfinder. 

There has been some quality control issues with the M-A so consider a second hand one. Used prices are reasonable as it is not a desirable camera, when compared to the MP, which I see if exchanging hands for up to £4k now!

[Guest]

I was sort of in your quandary recently. I own a M7 .58 that hadn't really been used at all for at least five years, the camera was bought new in 2008. II decided to send it to Leica for a check-up and CLA, plus an estimate for the update to the viewfinder to relieve the flaring problem, ( that to be honest wasn't really a big problem for me, but as it was going to Wetzlar anyway I thought I'd at least ask about that ).

Cosmetically the camera was almost perfect, and appeared to be working just fine when I checked it before shipping it out. I thought that maybe 300-400 Euros might sort it....but the estimate came in at just under €1000 because apart from the cost of the viewfinder update it was found that the shutter curtains were "pinholed" and needed replacement, plus the CLA for the rest of the camera. VAT added to the cost too of course.

The viewfinder update was around €200, the DX reader replacement was offered for free if everything else would be done at the same time. There were a number of other small things they found too that needed to be done if the camera was to be bought up to snuff, all in all the €1000 was a surprise but I ok'd it all anyway, primarily because the M7 is a unique and valuable tool, it's fully auto' function I like a lot, it had saved me on a number of occasions and makes the camera quick to use. 

So I received it back quite quickly and I don't regret the cost at all, the camera is a delight to use and as I'm primarily a WA shooter the .58 finder, now considerably improved with the update, is perfect for my use. I don't care too much about the DX reader switch-out because I have the camera set for Tri-X 90% of the time, but it was free, so......I do also own a M-A, bought this summer as I return to using more film for my personal work and the two cameras compliment each other very nicely. I think if you do sell off the M7 you may well regret that, I know for sure I would have if I had done so. The M7 is a great M, one of the best in my opinion,.

[Matlock]

I would second what petermullett says. I had mine updated some time ago and the M7 is now my most used film Leica (along with my IIId). I bought a M-A last year and it really is a great camera but it doesn't get the same amount of use as my M7.

[andybarton]

If you sell a very early M7 clearly in need of a CLA, you are going to have to declare that fact, which will impact on the price paid.

There are lots of decent ones out there that you would be competing against.

 

[andybarton]

1 hour ago, ShivaYash said:

compared to the MP, which I see if exchanging hands for up to £4k now!

I sold my MP 0.58 Black Paint ALC to a good friend when I bought my M240. I think he paid about £2,000, which was the going rate at the time...

I hope he's still enjoying it, or if not, I hope he got four grand for it!

There's one on eBay right now, 91% condition, for $6,500

[harmen]

Surprising to hear that you'd find the M(240) easier to focus.  Between my MA and 240, I notice no practical difference.  Both are about as easy to focus.  My M6TTL, now gone, however was harder under some circumstances when light hit it just wrong.

[Jon Warwick]

Many thanks for all your replies.

I think i'm angling towards sending my M7 to Germany for some love ......this decision is partly driven by re-looking at prices for new M-As (and analogue MPs) that seem to have recently increased to £ 4k ....when did that occur?! 

I'm hoping the viewfinder upgrade to a flare-free "MP" version will help .....as I say, i find my early M7 viewfinder is notably harder for focusing vs my M240.

I'm not sure if it's just the flare, or if the rangefinder patch of the analogue cameras is generally lower contrast anyhow?

I guess the final questions =

- Do others see a practical difference in the flare vs non-flare viewfinders? From the above it sounds that it will be noticeable?

-  If the viewfinder is being upgraded to an "MP" version, I'm assuming I could choose a 0.72x (matching what i currently have) or maybe elect a 0.85x instead. I shoot only 50mm + 75mm lenses, and I'd be unlikely to ever go wider (and even then only to 35mm focal length) .......do others see a 0.85x viewfinder as noticeably helping their focusing with, say, 50mm & 75mm lenses? 

Thanks again 

[andybarton]

8 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

I think i'm angling towards sending my M7 to Germany for some love

You can't until the New Year.

 

See the thread in the Customer forum section.

[ktmrider2]

Get the M7 repaired by Leica and you will essentially have a new camera.  Pick up a nice M2 for 800 pounds and if you like using a manual camera, keep both and you have the best of both worlds.  Or if you really like the manual camera, then sell the M7 (probably recover most of the cost of the repair if you keep the paperwork from Leica) and use the best camera Leica ever made.  Or sell both and then buy the MA.  Other then having all six frame lines (cluttered viewfinder) and being new, the MA is an M2 in expensive clothing.

Have never owned a M7 but I do like using the AE on my MP240 but the M2 is still my favorite Leica primarily due to the elegance of the viewfinder.

[logan2z]

5 hours ago, ShivaYash said:

Used prices are reasonable as it is not a desirable camera, when compared to the MP, which I see if exchanging hands for up to £4k now!

Maybe I'm confused, are you saying people are paying £4k for a used MP?  That is the price of a new one. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Maybe I'm confused, are you saying people are paying £4k for a used MP?  That is the price of a new one. 

If that's so then prices have increased quickly in just a few months, my new M-A was less than 4K Euros in late July of this year.

[logan2z]

4 hours ago, andybarton said:

There's one on eBay right now, 91% condition, for $6,500

I see a bunch of used, stock MP .72 cameras on eBay for well over the US MSRP, most of them listed by sellers from outside the US.  I don't understand why anyone would bother listing a used MP ( unless it was a rare, ALC version) for more than the price of a new camera, unless they're hoping to find a sucker.  

[logan2z]

5 minutes ago, petermullett said:

If that's so then prices have increased quickly in just a few months, my new M-A was less than 4K Euros in late July of this year.

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/cat/index/sCategory/2601

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[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

Many thanks for all your replies.

I think i'm angling towards sending my M7 to Germany for some love ......this decision is partly driven by re-looking at prices for new M-As (and analogue MPs) that seem to have recently increased to £ 4k ....when did that occur?! 

I'm hoping the viewfinder upgrade to a flare-free "MP" version will help .....as I say, i find my early M7 viewfinder is notably harder for focusing vs my M240.

I'm not sure if it's just the flare, or if the rangefinder patch of the analogue cameras is generally lower contrast anyhow?

I guess the final questions =

- Do others see a practical difference in the flare vs non-flare viewfinders? From the above it sounds that it will be noticeable?

-  If the viewfinder is being upgraded to an "MP" version, I'm assuming I could choose a 0.72x (matching what i currently have) or maybe elect a 0.85x instead. I shoot only 50mm + 75mm lenses, and I'd be unlikely to ever go wider (and even then only to 35mm focal length) .......do others see a 0.85x viewfinder as noticeably helping their focusing with, say, 50mm & 75mm lenses? 

Thanks again 

Hello Jon, about the "flare free" patch in an updated viewfinder.......Yes it does make some visible difference in some lighting conditions like shooting into the light/sun/whatever, but overall it's not a great deal of difference in my opinion. It may be more noticeable with a .85 finder, but with  the .58 0n my M7 I can see it but if I hadn't been getting other work done at the same time on the camera I probably wouldn't have bothered with having it upgraded.........But as said before, I consider the 1K Euros I spent on my M7 recently as being very worthwhile.

Regarding the option of changing your existing VF to a .85 yes I think they can still do that but the cost the last time I checked, ( I was considering having my new M-A that is only deliverable with a .72 VF converted to my preferred .58 VF ), that would run you more than 500 Euros for that part of any service alone. I didn't change the M-A's VF, stayed with the .72 and that's been just fine.