SL2 ProRes with Atomos Ninja V Update???

[dathinc]

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I have been working on piecing together a video rig for the SL2........I know everyone has been talking about the ProRes stuff and wanted some of you all to weigh in on this firmware update from Atmos........

hey Simon does this apply to SL2 ? As far as Prores goes??? https://nofilmschool.com/atomos-ninja-v-update

Does this mean I should be able to get ProRes out of the Ninja V now? Let me know.....please and thanks guys

 

:Please see the link above. All input is appreciated.

[Photoworks]

you can always get different flavors of ProRes on the atoms recorders.

I think you question is about ProresRAW. and the answer is no!

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[BernardC]

Nothing much to add, except that ProRes also works with the original SL, and has since that camera was first released.

Why no raw video? There was a Leica interview a few months back that explained that raw doesn't make much practical sense with a 47MP sensor. It would be re-sampled raw, which arguably isn't raw at all, and it wouldn't have a noticeable effect on image quality. Let's not forget that ProRes 4:2:2 is good enough for major motion pictures. Granted, they are less likely to mess-up exposure and colour balance (as you would, if you had a world-class professional with an incident meter and a colour meter by your side, along with a transport truck full of lighting gear).

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming SL2S offered raw video, especially if it comes with a more video-optimized sensor. Of course, the extra "S" could stand for "still", in which case it might forego all video functionality. There's a whole thread dedicated to this type of speculation, if you are interested.

[dathinc]

Hey Bernard.......if not  PRoREs what do you think is the best options coming out of the SL2? Thanks and let me know.

[BernardC]

58 minutes ago, dathinc said:

if not  PRoREs what do you think is the best options coming out of the SL2?

It depends on what you will do with the files.

If you use an external HDMI recorder, like an Atomos or BlackMagic, your main options are ProRes and DNxHR. They are functionally the same, ProRes was developed by Apple, and DNx by Avid. Avid is the "Hollywood" video editor. It's very popular in the film and (US) television industry, but not at the consumer level. Both have very little compression, so they are great for editing, provided you have fast storage. You would pick whichever format is compatible with your editor.

If you are recording in-camera, Leica provides two main options: MOV and MP4. Again, they are functionally the same, however Leica's MOV options cover more advanced requirements, and MP4 is for basic needs. What that means is that MP4 uses inter-frame compression for smaller file sizes, and it only offers frame sizes that correspond to consumer formats (HD, UHD).

For "home" movies, or videos where you won't do much editing, you may as well use MP4. MOV is larger (less compressed), 10-bit, and it allows you to use frame sizes that don't correspond to consumer televisions (5K, 4K DCI, a.k.a. "cinema 4K"). You would use that for projects that will get more post-production love.

Truthfully, you won't be able to tell the difference in quality between (Leica's) MOV and MP4 formats if you just do basic edits (no colour correction or effects). MOV is better when you use LOG, 10 bit (required for HDR), and when you plan to do a lot of editing.

[dathinc]

Bernard this is new to me but would love to me able to grade at the highest level as I grow. 

[simon_hsn]

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Now the SL2-S is on the market, it becomes more likely that we will eventually see ProResRaw

I can only speculate but I hope to see 5,9k raw (just like with Pananasonic cameras) via a future firmware update. 

[BernardC]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:32 AM, simon_hsn said:

Now the SL2-S is on the market, it becomes more likely that we will eventually see ProResRaw

I can only speculate but I hope to see 5,9k raw (just like with Pananasonic cameras) via a future firmware update. 

5.9K would be very cool, even though UHD/4K is probably enough for any project. Specifications for the SL2-S mention HDMI 2.0a, which is limited to 4k (v2.1 can do 10k), so it's unlikely we would see 6k-over-HDMI without raw encoding.

I don't know if Leica will enable raw-over-HDMI. As I mentioned in a different thread, Atomos usually announces that feature long before it becomes available, and I haven't seen any mention yet.

That being said, almost no project actually needs raw. ProRes 422 is more than enough for major motion pictures.

[simon_hsn]

The HDMI connection of the Leica SL2-S is HDMI 2.0b Type A. It is the same connection that you have in the Panasonic S1 and S1H for example. It provides 18Gb/s data rate, so 5,9k ProResRaw is possible, just like with the Pansonic S5, S1, S1H, Nikon Z6, etc, which equally use HDMI 2.0b.  

When outputting RAW, it is usally a 1:1 pixel readout, thus the 5,9k on a 24 megapixel sensor (6000x4000). The S1H also offers 4k ProResRaw output, but it is with a crop due to the 1:1 pixel readout. I am pretty sure that Leica will eventually offer this in its 4 year camera life cycle. 

ProResRaw is essentially as large as ProRes HQ, but has additional benefits to it. In my opinion, it has many advantages to shoot RAW video (just like when taking pictures), such as adjusting the white balance properly and adjusting the ISO in post, etc. 

ProResRaw is still very new and being developed. Just a few years ago, RAW video was only something for high end productions. Now it is available to almost any hobby filmer - really, really exciting times ahead.

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, simon_hsn said:

The HDMI connection of the Leica SL2-S is HDMI 2.0b Type A. It is the same connection that you have in the Panasonic S1 and S1H for example. It provides 18Gb/s data rate, so 5,9k ProResRaw is possible, just like with the Pansonic S5, S1, S1H, Nikon Z6, etc, which equally use HDMI 2.0b.

Yes. The way that those cameras do it is by using the HDMI connection as a data pipe, instead of sending an HDMI signal that your TV would recognize. We just don't know if Leica plans to do that.

 

3 hours ago, simon_hsn said:

Just a few years ago, RAW video was only something for high end productions. Now it is available to almost any hobby filmer - really, really exciting times ahead.

I've worked on projects with Cinema DNG 4K raw from an FS-700. It's a massive amount of data, plus Cinema DNG creates a file for each frame, so you end-up with folders that contain thousands of files. 1,000 frames at 24 fps is only 41seconds, which means that computers have a hard time opening folders that have very lengthy shots. Only hobbyists bothered with that workflow. It was too complicated for professional shoots.

RedRaw and ArriRaw are much more production-friendly than CDNG, although they are single-vendor. ProRes and Blackmagic raw have ensured that almost any brand of camera can deliver raw files.