Is this really the going rate for BP M3s?

[logan2z]

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14 minutes ago, colint544 said:

For what it's worth, in 2013 I sent my recently acquired standard chrome 1966 Leica M2 off to Kanto. The controls were stiff, and the viewfinder was dim. The Vulcanite on the back door was all lifting off. I wanted them to paint it black, since there was no way I could afford a genuine M2 BP. And I really wanted a vintage Leitz era Leica M in black paint.

Kanto will only do this if you pay for a full service as well. They're stripping the whole thing down anyway, so it makes sense. They replaced a shutter roller (I'm not quite sure what that is) and cleaned the rangefinder. And they chemically stripped all the chromed brass parts, and painted the camera black. At their suggestion, they painted the engravings in off-white. It was a different camera when I got it back. Smooth, tight, and the shutter release whisper quiet.

Seven years on, I've put more than 140 rolls of film through the camera. It never misses a beat. Would recommend, as they say.

 

Good to know, thanks for the info.

It would be great to see a photo of the camera.

Edited November 16, 2020 by logan2z

[250swb]

13 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

^ The M3 had a brass top plate; zinc top plates were introduced with the M6. I believe Kanto sandblast down to the brass, removing the chrome plating.
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All sandblasting will do is soften all the edges and detail, and brass is much softer than the chrome you are trying to remove.  Like sandpaper blasting would be barbaric and I doubt they do it that way since doing it the proper way is easier. To remove chrome you put the items into a chrome bath but reverse the polarity, same for the nickel undercoat but this time in a nickel bath. 

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[Guest Nowhereman]

^ Here's what the Kanto Camera website states:

" ...The most important thing for beautiful paint finish is the pretreatment process. If you use sandpaper to strip metallic coating, the base metal will be scraped. If the base metal become thin, the cold and heavy feeling of the metal may be gone, and its texture might become lighter and cheap. Of course, our method is different, and it hardly cause a damage to the base metal. Furthermore, our skilled craftsmen prepare the surface with careful base repair works and sandblast (the actual material is glass-beads-sand which is smaller than sand). Since we invest a good deal of time and effort to the pretreatment process like this, we can keep the beautiful finish."
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[wattsy]

15 hours ago, logan2z said:

If they simply swap the top plate, I wonder if they re-engrave the new plate exactly as it was before, including the serial #.

I've no idea but you can be as sure as shit that they will not be painting the chrome top plate of the camera you send in. Most likely they will put your serial number on the hotshoe as per the black chrome M-A.

Edited November 17, 2020 by wattsy

[pgk]

21 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Factory black paint M3 only 3.010 units comparing to 215.944 silver chrome M3.

According to the wiki here on the forum, the M4 was produced as follows:

Chrome - 47,522, Black chrome - 6,775, Black lacquer (paint) - 4,889, Olive lacquer - 31 & ELC - 650

which means that a BP M4 is not quite as rare, values though are considerably lower https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Leitz/M4-black-paint.html and as I have one I'm to too disgruntled because I wouldn't have been able to afford one if they had been at BP M3 prices! However I do wonder if they will start to rise too as there seems to be an ever growing interest in BP Leica Ms of all types? Such equipment is worth what the market will pay for it I suppose - the M4 whilst liked by many photographers always seems to lag behind other models in terms of its value, the M3 on the other hand appears to be climbing generally at the moment (or asking prices are). Most need a CLA from what I've seen.

[colint544]

12 hours ago, logan2z said:

Good to know, thanks for the info.

It would be great to see a photo of the camera.

Well - sorry to clutter up the thread, but here you go. Before and after. 

The black paintwork from Kanto was almost mirror-like. They even restored the black 'L' seal to the top screw on the lens mount. I know it's not a genuine black paint M2, but it's a genuine M2, and it operates like a dream.

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Edited November 17, 2020 by colint544

[colint544]

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[Charles Morgan]

Lovely Colin! Was the brassing done at the time by Kanto, or happened with the normal passage of time and wear?

[colint544]

5 minutes ago, Charles Morgan said:

Lovely Colin! Was the brassing done at the time by Kanto, or happened with the normal passage of time and wear?

Cheers, Charles. With Kanto, since it's a ground-up restoration, you have a great deal of options. I opted for very light brassing from the factory. If I were to do it again, I probably wouldn't go that way. It has more brassing on it now anyway. I liked the leatherette they put on to replace the vulcanite. Very grippy. And the off-white paint worked well, I thought. It seemed in keeping with it being a 50-year-old camera. 

[Charles Morgan]

Thanks - it's really lovely, although I'm a sucker for nice fresh paint without wear. I'm very likely to do one of my Ms at some point, probably my M3 when it needs a CLA, but it's good to know of more options available!

 

[colint544]

4 minutes ago, Charles Morgan said:

Thanks - it's really lovely, although I'm a sucker for nice fresh paint without wear. I'm very likely to do one of my Ms at some point, probably my M3 when it needs a CLA, but it's good to know of more options available!

 

I've seen a Kanto-painted M2 in smoke grey, with grey leather, and the controls left in silver chrome. A lovely thing

[logan2z]

@colint544 That looks spectacular.

[logan2z]

7 hours ago, wattsy said:

Most likely they will put your serial number on the hotshoe as per the black chrome M-A.

It would suck to lose the original engraving.

[wattsy]

16 hours ago, logan2z said:

It would suck to lose the original engraving.

The old à la carte programme included the option for personal engraving so presumably this current service can include an element of personalisation such as choice of Leica engraving and placement of serial number? All I am certain of is that they will not paint an existing silver chrome top plate.

As much as I like my black paint camera, it is more a feel thing than the appearance. I think my silver chrome M-A is the more attractive camera with a kind of fine engineering tool vibe about it.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, wattsy said:

As much as I like my black paint camera, it is more a feel thing than the appearance. I think my silver chrome M-A is the more attractive camera with a kind of fine engineering tool vibe about it.

I tend to agree. To me the black paint suits the old LTM (I, II, etc) better than the M series. My favourite finish is the grey paint on my IIIck.

[BradS]

As I’ve said elsewhere, I have both black and chrome. I much prefer the chrome because is wears better. 
 

It seems to me the black paint fetish is a relatively recent thing. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by BradS