How is it easy to damage sensor?

[tm35]

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Hello - Found that my M10 has a peck of dust that can be seen at around f 5.6. I am thinking of going to leica store and ask for cleaning service (it seems that my local store offer this service). But, I think, why don't I try to clean it first, going to pay for it anyway? After a bit of reading, I convinced that it is not that easy to damage the sensor, so I started by blowing away dust before open up shutter. Then open shutter with sensor facing down, I started rocket blow it. The blowing blow that large peck of dust but for some reason, there are something like fabric lint stuck at the sensor instead, and it seems I cannot blow it away. I am thinking of trying using Pentax Cleaning Kit and VisibleDust Swab as I saw they are recommended.

I am wondering how abuse (obviously, I won't try to abuse it) I need to be in order to permanently damage the sensor? I would like to learn cleaning it myself, since I just own this M10 for a month, so it's highly likely that I may need to clean it again in the future or during my travel. Thanks.

 

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[J.Nordvik]

Get some cotton swaps and isopropyl alcohol from a pharmacy.

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[jdlaing]

Cotton buds and alcohol is a really bad idea. 

[tm35]

I think what I was wondering is what it takes to damage the sensor. Anyone has accidentally damaged sensor when using proper sensor cleaning tool like sensor swab?

[lucerne]

3 minutes ago, tm35 said:

I think what I was wondering is what it takes to damage the sensor. Anyone has accidentally damaged sensor when using proper sensor cleaning tool like sensor swab?

Have you tried using a bulb type blower first?  Its a non-contact method.   Many photographers carry one. 

[tm35]

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Yep, I did. I got the big dust off, but I also added two more (fabric-lint like) instead, and they doesn't want to be blown away. I ordered a blower with filter to see if it will help with adding more dust and whether waiting for a bit would help getting them off easier.

[Jeff S]

You’re not cleaning the sensor itself, just the cover glass.  Common sense applies.  As noted, there are tons of related discussions, as well as video tutorials online.

Jeff

[Guest BlackBarn]

There is cleaning and there is cleaning....and then there is cleaning.

I watched my sensors being cleaned by the Leica store on my SL and M10M. He spent around 15 - 20 min  on each sensor. Previously I have also watched some tutorials on line and  read various posts in this forum.

I’m assuming the guy at the Leica store was trained by Leica but if not he has certainly seen it done as he told me that Leica use the same process but  in a dust free atmosphere (gloves and glass box sort of thing). 

No glass box at the Leica store but  the guy did say that cleaning without a sensor loupe is not cleaning (without that  you simply can’t see all  the dust). He used a loupe called Quasar Plus and showed me the difference....he’s right. He had a three phase process. ...each time always checking with the Loupe. Phase one. Using an Imagesensor he picked up easy to find dust. Phase Two he used  the wet method to clean the more stubborn dust using ‘duel power plus’ both green and blue top bottles. Using the applicator one way then the next and changing applicator when changing bottles. For the last phase, using the loupe more frequently,  he searched and removed marks the other systems couldn’t using a CCD sensor cleaner.  In his  opinion, when taking care,  you should not damage the sensor and he also mentioned  using a blower is pointless. 

The tutorials I have found  on line have come nowhere  close to the method,  care and attention taken at the Leica store. His other advice was not to store cameras and lenses in your camera bag  as these are dust traps. Find a less dust location or at best one of the controlled environment camera/lens cabinets. 

 

[Toastybunzz]

It's really easy but I would recommend an actual sensor cleaning kit. It comes with multiple single use wiper swabs and cleaning liquid, just follow the instructions. I had to do it on my M10 when I first got it. Never scrub or apply pressure, one swipe and then discard the cleaning swab and use a fresh one if you need another pass. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Toastybunzz

[LocalHero1953]

I've been all round the different methods, but in the end I have found that a blower is the best first line of defence, used during frequent/regular checks so nothing gets 'baked' on. Since settling on this approach I have rarely been called on for anything more intrusive. The next step is an Arctic Butterfly brush. Since using the combo of blower and AB brush I don't recall ever using wet cleaning.

The wet cleaning method that I found the worst was with a water-based cleaning fluid - it just left drying marks that were difficult to remove. An alcohol-based cleaning fluid with sensor swabs (NOT cotton buds!) is good for greasy marks and sticky pollen. The sticky pads worked well, but they always seemed a bit too sticky, and after I left an extra sticky mark on the sensor after accidentally dragging a pad, I abandoned them.

I agree with the comment above about using a loupe - it shows up dust which isn't visible to my eye. But in reality I see dust on my images first, and then look for it on the sensor.

[Good To Be Retired]

Sensor cleaning, like using clear filters and ETTR, is one of those things that causes a polarization of opinions.  You’re pretty much either in one camp or the other.  

Researching the internet, LensRentals is probably pretty much at the top of the heap in regard to reliable information on camera sensor/lens cleaning.  If memory serves, they said somewhere that they clean something on the order of 200 per day.  I would speculate, with no evidence whatsoever, that’s significantly more than Leica cleans.  You might find some of their articles on the subject interesting.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/04/how-to-clean-a-camera-sensor/

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/04/guide-to-cleaning-your-camera-sensor/

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/03/how-to-clean-your-camera-lenses-and-check-for-problems/

So with that in mind, here’s my own admittedly opinionated view:

Regarding the information you got from your local camera salesman, I suggest you regard this much like having your car serviced by a car salesman.  In any case, in my view anyone who suggests that a bulb blower is useless should be immediately suspect.

Alcohol from the drugstore and Q-Tips (cotton buds as I understand they are called in Europe) are truly outstanding materials for cleaning wax out of your ears.

If you ask the pharmacist, he may carry 99.95% pure alcohol behind the counter, but I doubt you’ll see it on the shelf.  This may be perfectly satisfactory for cleaning sensors and probably costs a lot less than Eclipse or similar products.  Or maybe not, you pays your money and takes your chances.  Bear in mind that opened bottles can absorb moisture from the air, rendering them useless.  The stuff on the shelf may contain enough water to leave streaks and also oils to prevent skin drying. 

I’m going to suggest you consider the cost of a bottle of Eclipse (sort of a de facto industry standard), and a box of Sensor Swabs, (also a sort of de facto industry standard) and compare that with the cost of a sensor.  Make your own judgement.  If you need to save the money so be it.

Sensor cleaning, in my view, is sort of a required skill if you’re interested in digital photography.  Unless you drown the sensor in enough fluid to have it seep under the cover glass and onto the sensor itself, or drag a swab with a bit of grit under it around like a mop, you’re going to be hard pressed to do any damage.  

Regarding loupes, LensRentals uses them.  And it’s certainly impossible to damage a sensor with one.  But I invite you to consider this:

Cleaning lenses, sensors, and filters is best avoided altogether if it’s not necessary.  When is it necessary?  When you can see the effects of a contaminate in the images.

If you can photograph a clear blue sky at f22 and not see dust on the images, finding unremoved debris on the sensor with a loupe is not productive.  If you can’t see it in the image just leave it alone.  I guess a careful examination with a loupe beforehand will help you identify the nature of the contaminate, but do you really care?  After you know what it is and it didn't blow off you're going to do a wet cleaning anyway.

I suggest you blow off what you can and verify it’s clean.  Frequently that's all that's all you need.  If not, go directly to a wet cleaning, which is pretty much guaranteed to remove anything that doesn’t blow off.

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Good To Be Retired

[LocalHero1953]

I agree with what you write @Good To Be Retired, with one proviso. You can be like me, and shoot most of the time with a wide aperture and see no problems, and then you need to stop down for a particular shot, and then you see the little dust flecks on all your nice images. That's when you realise that it is worth being proactive in checking for dust.

[Good To Be Retired]

7 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I agree with what you write @Good To Be Retired, with one proviso. You can be like me, and shoot most of the time with a wide aperture and see no problems, and then you need to stop down for a particular shot, and then you see the little dust flecks on all your nice images. That's when you realise that it is worth being proactive in checking for dust.

I agree completely.  Where we differ, I suspect, is I recommend checking for dust by viewing at 100% magnification on the computer.  There may still be some crud there I could have found with a loupe, but if I can't see it at f22 and 100% viewing on a computer I don't care.  I feel pretty strongly about not cleaning at all if I can avoid it.  And not just because I'm a lazy SOB   Which I am, but that's beside the point.

See what I meant about polarizing opinions  

Edited November 7, 2020 by Good To Be Retired

[LocalHero1953]

"Polarising opinions"? All I see is broad agreement (except on cotton buds)🤔.

[poli]

If it is just dust on the sensor and no crease marks I recommend a loupe and a Arctic Butterfly brush. Check with the loupe to see what’s on your sensor. 9 out of 10 times it is indeed a small dust particle which is hard to see with the naked eye. 
You can carefully remove dust without much trouble with the butterfly brush and I can’t imagine damaging the sensor with it. Now and then I clean the brush with alcohol. I maybe clean the sensor once per year. 
I try to avoid wet cleaning. I think it is a pain and you can easily leave marks.
Actually Will van Manen recommend me not to do wet cleaning because of leaving marks. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by poli

[Good To Be Retired]

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

"Polarising opinions"? All I see is broad agreement (except on cotton buds)🤔.

Yes.  As in someone quickly finding something to disagree with or criticize.

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Good To Be Retired