By Way of Introduction

[boojum]

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By way of introduction, I just took delivery today of a pristine M240.  The whole box and contents.  And it works!  Currently I have an old Pentax SMC 50mm f/1.4 on it along with an Olympus VF-2 to make the lens easier to work with on this camera. My M8.2 uses a nice Canon 28mm f/2.8, a CV 35mm 1.4 MC II and a nice Jupiter 9 85mm f/2. So, two cameras, four lenses and a severely depleted wallet.  I am off to Portland tomorrow to get the guys at my camera store to bless the camera and then on Saturday a trip to a lovely village (?) in Washington, Oysterville.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oysterville%2C_Washington) Very photogenic and they have their Halloween pumpkins and decorations out to color up the homes and gardens.  I'll use the M 240, the M8.2 and two non-Leicas to see how they compare.

[Tom1234]

Please post pic's. 

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[Sjz]

7 hours ago, boojum said:

By way of introduction, I just took delivery today of a pristine M240.  The whole box and contents.  And it works!  Currently I have an old Pentax SMC 50mm f/1.4 on it along with an Olympus VF-2 to make the lens easier to work with on this camera. My M8.2 uses a nice Canon 28mm f/2.8, a CV 35mm 1.4 MC II and a nice Jupiter 9 85mm f/2. So, two cameras, four lenses and a severely depleted wallet.  I am off to Portland tomorrow to get the guys at my camera store to bless the camera and then on Saturday a trip to a lovely village (?) in Washington, Oysterville.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oysterville%2C_Washington) Very photogenic and they have their Halloween pumpkins and decorations out to color up the homes and gardens.  I'll use the M 240, the M8.2 and two non-Leicas to see how they compare.

Congratulations, make sure you share the results 🙂

[boojum]

Your appeals to my vanity will almost always succeed.  

[Good To Be Retired]

A new camera/lens is always a treat.  I hope you enjoy your Leica as much as I do.

If you have a flicker account post some images

[boojum]

I have a Flickr account.  For the two sets of four images, though, I will post them here as the comparisons will be pertinent to this forum.  I took them today. I will shuffle through the sets, select the ones for comparison and post them, untagged, for your guesses as to what is what and what is better.  It should be fun.

[boojum]

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Two sets of four photos.  Two Leicas, two non-Leicas.  40mm to 55mm focal lengths.  It was the best I could do on matching focal lengths.  As soon as I can determine how to hide the info identifying the cameras which is attached to the files I will post the links. Or post them here.  I'll see what works easier.

These are small images so that I can pot them as a group, hopefully.  Easier to compare as a group.

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Edited November 2, 2020 by boojum
add files, correct thought

[boojum]

An additional four images by two Leicas and two non-Leicas.

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[boojum]

I'll leave these up for a while so that any interested folks can examine and identify which are the Leicas and which are the non-Leicas.  I will identify which cameras took what.  And I will do my best to remember which is which.   ;o)

Just joking, I have the EXIF info on a set of these same files.  I hope to go out to Oysterville often through the fall and winter for more photos.  The community just appears on this side road, it just springs out at you.  The homes and yards are tastefully manicured except for one fellow who thinks espaliered trees appropriate to this small 19th century community.  They are not. I will pass on photos of that place. It is awful, but quite expensive as are all these homes.  His neighbors must be gritting their teeth.  There are a few 20th century homes tastefully done to blend well.  But not this one guy.  

[Raymondl]

15 hours ago, boojum said:

I'll leave these up for a while so that any interested folks can examine and identify which are the Leicas and which are the non-Leicas.  I will identify which cameras took what.  And I will do my best to remember which is which.   ;o)

Just joking, I have the EXIF info on a set of these same files.  I hope to go out to Oysterville often through the fall and winter for more photos.  The community just appears on this side road, it just springs out at you.  The homes and yards are tastefully manicured except for one fellow who thinks espaliered trees appropriate to this small 19th century community.  They are not. I will pass on photos of that place. It is awful, but quite expensive as are all these homes.  His neighbors must be gritting their teeth.  There are a few 20th century homes tastefully done to blend well.  But not this one guy.  

Hey @boojum I am big in having a go/guess and making a fool out of myself (haha). Always a bit of fun. 

It "feels" like the first two photos were taken from a M240 and the last two were taken from the M8.2 .. I am assuming you didn't do any post straight from DNG -> JPEG ?

I did find it difficulty trying to differentiate the lenses.. so I won't try to "guess" (not yet anyhow).. so I'll tell you my favourite .... 1st photo in set B (the trees) & 1st photo in set A (house)

 

[boojum]

Each photo is from a different camera.  Four cameras, four photos.  Those from Leicas were from DNG's.  The DNG's became PNG's in RawTherapee (Linux) and were then converted to JPG in GIMP (Linux) to strip the EXIF data.  The non-Leicas were JPG's which were stripped GIMP.  GIMP was the only way I found to strip off the EXIF.  I tried in W10 but it was not a complete job so GIMP was the answer.  GIMP requires a JPG export using the option to not export EXIF. 

So, each photo is a unique camera with a unique lens, all from ~40mm to 55mm.

 

[Raymondl]

48 minutes ago, boojum said:

Each photo is from a different camera.  Four cameras, four photos.  Those from Leicas were from DNG's.  The DNG's became PNG's in RawTherapee (Linux) and were then converted to JPG in GIMP (Linux) to strip the EXIF data.  The non-Leicas were JPG's which were stripped GIMP.  GIMP was the only way I found to strip off the EXIF.  I tried in W10 but it was not a complete job so GIMP was the answer.  GIMP requires a JPG export using the option to not export EXIF. 

So, each photo is a unique camera with a unique lens, all from ~40mm to 55mm.

 

@boojum Ok.Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

So If I understood this correctly..

1. Equipment Used

Outlined below in no specific order.

Lenses:
Lens 1 - Pentax SMC 50mm f/1.4
Lens 2 - Canon 28mm f/2.8
Lens 3 - CV 35mm 1.4 MC II
Lens 4 - Jupiter 9 85mm f/2

Cameras:
Camera 1 - M240 
Camera 2 - M8.2

2. Pairing (Camera + Lenses)

Each of the photos were shot (House and road) were taken with a different combination such that there aren't two images with the same "pair" (camera + lens), that's why there are in total of 8 photos.

so example of the pairing would be:

Camera 1 + Lens 1

Camera 1 + Lens 2

Camera 1 + Lens 3

Camera 1 + Lens 4

Camera 2 + Lens 1

Camera 2 + Lens 2

Camera 2 + Lens 3

Camera 2 + Lens 4

3. Challenge 

Guess camera + lens that was used for each photo.

[boojum]

The numeric suffix of each photo indicates that camera and lens.  The lens and camera combinations do not change.  That would have been a trifle underhanded.  So the "01" is the same camera-lens combo for both photos, the "02" the same and so on.  In each instance there are two Leica camera photos and two non-Leica photos.  I have only an M 8.2 and an M 240 so you know going in the Leica cameras.  The non-Leicas you do not know, but can you separate them from the Leicas?  Can you tell the M 8.2 from the M 240?  And the lenses all fall in the ~40mm to 55mm range.  I am just wondering if the cameras are distinct to the forum members.  I did expect lens identification.

I was impressed by the differences.  And there does seem to be a close correlation between camera cost and camera image quality.  That's a relief, isn't it?  

Edited November 3, 2020 by boojum

[Raymondl]

49 minutes ago, boojum said:

The numeric suffix of each photo indicates that camera and lens.  The lens and camera combinations do not change.  That would have been a trifle underhanded.  So the "01" is the same camera-lens combo for both photos, the "02" the same and so on.  In each instance there are two Leica camera photos and two non-Leica photos.  I have only an M 8.2 and an M 240 so you know going in the Leica cameras.  The non-Leicas you do not know, but can you separate them from the Leicas?  Can you tell the M 8.2 from the M 240?  And the lenses all fall in the ~40mm to 55mm range.  I am just wondering if the cameras are distinct to the forum members.  I did expect lens identification.

I was impressed by the differences.  And there does seem to be a close correlation between camera cost and camera image quality.  That's a relief, isn't it?  

@boojum

I think I can tell the difference between the M8.2 from the M240. Not sure about the lenses ! 

The first two photos were taken with the M240 and the remaining is taken from the M8.2.

The M240 files look like they have more dynamic range when looking at the shadow and highlights, while the remaining two photos taken from the M8.2 files look as if it's pretty "cooked"...

Reference "this is the look" I am used to coming from a Leica (unprocessed)  - https://photos.app.goo.gl/DRuL4CS53VHk8zfv8

[boojum]

OK, let me go over this a bit more clearly.  I was not clear. The photos, "01" though "04," are each done with a different camera.  "01" is done with camera A, "02" with camera B, "03" with camera C and "04" with camera D.  Each camera is unique and distinct from the other three.  In no case was any camera used more than once within a set of four, "Cottage" or "Avenue."  Two of the cameras are Leicas and two are not.  I liked the exercise as it is four different shots of the same thing at the same time so one can appraise the subtle differences.

[Raymondl]

7 minutes ago, boojum said:

OK, let me go over this a bit more clearly.  I was not clear. The photos, "01" though "04," are each done with a different camera.  "01" is done with camera A, "02" with camera B, "03" with camera C and "04" with camera D.  Each camera is unique and distinct from the other three.  In no case was any camera used more than once within a set of four, "Cottage" or "Avenue."  Two of the cameras are Leicas and two are not.  I liked the exercise as it is four different shots of the same thing at the same time so one can appraise the subtle differences.

@boojum understand now. That’s fairly difficult! In fact too difficult, it’s like trying to compare these kind of images without the captions ! https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/6/8/sony-a9-vs-leica-m10-and-leica-sl-part-ii

[boojum]

If it is difficult that, too, is important.  Just how significant are the differences between the M 8.2 and the M 240?  And how great a difference is there between the Leicas and the non-Leicas?  And are those differences truly worthwhile?  So while you may not be able to sort out which is which you can rank them in your preference.  Which is the finest image?  Which is the runner-up?

[Raymondl]

40 minutes ago, boojum said:

If it is difficult that, too, is important.  Just how significant are the differences between the M 8.2 and the M 240?  And how great a difference is there between the Leicas and the non-Leicas?  And are those differences truly worthwhile?  So while you may not be able to sort out which is which you can rank them in your preference.  Which is the finest image?  Which is the runner-up?

@boojum Sure. I’ll give it a go.

I am going to focus on the 2nd set of images, as I feel I have a better point of reference. 

Preference Overview:

Images 1&2 - my preferences out of the lot.

images 3&4 - these just don’t go down well in my eyes.. feels overcooked / not exposed properly / limited DR / taken from a old camera phone

Detailed Overview

Pick 1. Image 1 (M240?)

rationale:

-high dynamic range compared to 3&4, referring to the darkest area of the image to the brightest part of the image 

-Colors are not as vivid (compared to image 2) Referring to the greens and the orange pumpkin 

Pick 2. Image 2 (M8.2?)

rationale:

-high dynamic range (like above)

-Colors are slightly more vivid 

Pick Image 3 & Image 4. I don’t like these so I won’t comment. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Raymondl

[boojum]

I'd like to not say until other folks have had a stab at it.  This is not  trick thing.  I was curious about how the different cameras would compare and thought others might be, too.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Raymondl]

41 minutes ago, boojum said:

I'd like to not say until other folks have had a stab at it.  This is not  trick thing.  I was curious about how the different cameras would compare and thought others might be, too.

@boojum yup all good. Yeah it’s always difficult these kind of tests....Because you don’t exactly know what you are comparing (but it’s fun) .. well as long as it’s not too far fetched like this...https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2019/03/19/crazy-comparison-leica-q2-vs-iphone-xs-vs-canon-eos-r/